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Sobibor "Gas chamber" Archeological research undertaken September 2014

Article about: An interesting artical ..... Hope this hasn't already been covered here ... 71 years later, Sobibor gas chambers unearthed | The Times of Israel Gary J.

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    Default Sobibor "Gas chamber" Archeological research undertaken September 2014

    An interesting artical ..... Hope this hasn't already been covered here ...

    71 years later, Sobibor gas chambers unearthed | The Times of Israel

    Gary J.

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    thanks Gary.

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    Next year, the establishment of a German, Dutch and Polish funded project - costing 7 million Euros, will begin with the construction of a new memorial to surround the remaining foundations.

    Further news links below, such as Spiegel, Reuters and The Daily Mail, address the recent discoveries and include photgraphs and short videos:

    The Archeological Excavations that Led to the Gas Chambers of Sobibor - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    Gas chambers discovered at Sobibor: Holocaust researchers find exact location of building at Nazi death camp* | Daily Mail Online

    Archaeologists uncover buried gas chambers at Sobibor death camp | Reuters
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Yom.Hashoah.candle.jpg  
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

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    Below is a diagram showing the northwestern sector of the camp, i.e. the extermination area. Some of this area has recently been uncovered for the first time since the SS attempted to cover all traces of their crimes.

    The gas chambers were approximately 4 x 4m. Each held over 150 people and were entered via small doors that were accessed from the surrounding veranda. A wooden annexe building housed the large engine used to pump the toxic fumes into the chambers via pipes. Narrow guage railways entered the sector and led to the burial pits. Once murdered, the bodies of the victims were burned on makeshift crematoria facility, using iron rails and concrete pillars.

    Thomas "Toivi" Blatt, an 87 year old survivor of the Sobibor uprising was able to attend last year's 70th anniversary of the event. In 1984, he interviewed Karl Frenzel, former SS-Oberscharführer and head of Lager-I at Sobibor. The interview was later released as an article, "A Confrontation With A Murderer" as is available online.

    Thomas 'Toivi' Blatt - "Escape from Sobibor" - YouTube

    Update, as of November 1st 2014:

    The statistics noted in the Spiegel thread linked earlier quote larger measurements and a smaller capacity (5 x 7m and up to 100 persons)
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SOBIBOR.EXT.FAC.jpg  
    Last edited by CARL; 11-01-2014 at 10:03 PM.
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

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    This is interesting. I remember the Smithsonian doing something similar with unearthing graves at Treblinka not too long ago. There was supposed to be a Documentary about it, which I never followed up on. Thanks for the links, and Carl, excellent interview with Toivi Blatt, thanks for sharing it.

    Here is the link to the Treblinka article:
    First-Ever Excavation of Nazi Death Camp Treblinka Reveals Horrors

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    Yes Bill, the work at Treblinka, which I am familiar with, has been briefly addressed on the forum. The follow up work continues and a book, along with further TV spots, is planned. A link to the Treblinka documentary, featuring the work of Dr.Caroline Sturdy Colls, a forensic investigation expert from Britain, was posted but is only available to viewers in the UK.

    On Now! Heads up for U.K. Members......
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

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    These sites were extensively turned over in the early post war years by local and Soviet treasure seekers looking for "Jewish" gold which makes me dubious about any remaining archeology on the site(s). Who can say with certainty if any traces or objects found were actually in situ at the time of the camps existence or as a result of the scavengers who were drawn from far and wide by the gold rush and picked over the sites?

    The Treblinka camp environs were extensively dug and even dynamited in attempts by treasure hunters to find the gold trinkets and jewels believed to have be dumped by those Jews on the way to their deaths. In fact wherever the "locals" believed Jewish gold and valuables were thought to be hidden such sites were sought out and picked over. This significant fact was entirely omitted by the archeological team in the Treblinka documentary and IMO invalidates much of their research and the conclusions they arrived at.
    Last edited by StefanM; 10-31-2014 at 01:18 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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    Interesting point Stefan ..
    .. So in theory they can only dig disrupted soil, ... bar the case where intact foundations lie.

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    I am not an archeologist so I cannot say if one would be able to tell with any degree of certainty which parts of the site(s) had not been disrupted by treasure hunters scouring the camps and burial pits post-war. Such activity was rife across Poland at the time and I presume it was the same in other countries wherever "Post-Jewish Property" was up for grabs.

    However it should be noted that such activity on the camp sites was not illegal at the time and that mass burial sites were also officially excavated and victims bodies exhumed after the war so that the victims remains could identified...and any "grave goods" would probably have been fair spoils for those involved in the grisly task. Not surprising really because we hear similar justifications from some of today's war-relic diggers.

    The wedding ring found 71 years later at Sobibor by the archeologists was exactly the "Post-Jewish Property" the treasure seekers were hoping to find:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by StefanM; 10-31-2014 at 01:18 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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    The key issue regarding Sobibor is the discovery of the foundations of the gas chambers - there can be no doubt that deniers will continue to splurge their filthy views nonetheless but these are patently historical findings that at last, after so many, many years, allow for further study of the site. We can now see not only the plans and models drawn up from the memory of some who were actually there, but also see the actual remnants of the structures - which lie where they should do in relation to previously drawn up plans of the site.

    Stefan raised a point made before - and certainly not without warrant. Any small objects found are revealed from a location that was likely scoured by treasure hunters post war and cannot be guaranteed as a remnant or belonging of the countless victims who perished at the site. The small ceramic tiles found at Treblinka by Dr.Sturdy Colls and the team have since been identified as not bearing the Star of David, as was reported on the documentary but are instead marked by a Polish ceramics manufacturer. However, the team are far from finished with their work and until they are done so, judgement of their overall findings is patently unfair. Recent discoveries at Sobibor are an entirely different matter as they relate to the discovery of actual structures, not small objects possibly discarded or disturbed by any figure in the vicinity during the post war period.
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

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