Imperial Kriegsmarine 1890 WKC etched cadet dagger with M38 Alcoso pommel

**AllanM** · 01-08-2019, 11:57 AM

Hi
Just wanting peoples thoughts on this. Would you consider it imperial or 3rd reich? Did they do this? Is it considered original? I am unsure being a noob. I can see the gap between handle and new pommel. Much appreciate peoples thoughts before i spend my hard earned funds. Thanks Is it genuine ?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 01-08-2019 11:57 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**AllanM** · 01-08-2019, 08:08 PM

Now after going through fakes page i am even more confused. Is this a fake?

**AllanM** · 01-08-2019, 10:36 PM

I have seen pictures with wire aroind handle and pictures without. After looking in the fakes thread it has become even more confusing. Apologies for asking for help. I am waiting on my first reference books from schiffer publishing

**Larry C** · 01-09-2019, 02:04 AM

Never apologize Allan ...its why you came here and to learn.

I have never seen a pre 3rd Reich naval dagger that was manufactured like what you have posted above.
I feel also the pommel may have been added also.

wait for the forums top Kriegsmarine experts ..Oleg and dr73 Danny

It appears to have some details brought together on it.

Regards Larry

**AllanM** · 01-09-2019, 08:12 AM

Thanks very much Larry. It is a dealer that has it. He saying that it legit and the pommel has been added as someones ongoing career. Do not have many daggers on themarket in new Zealand so have to look at them all. Much appreciate your reply

**AllanM** · 01-09-2019, 10:51 AM

So after going through a few threads please correct me if I'm wrong(haha) no wire on handle think i have seen 1 tht people say is genuine without wire. And this was a cadet dagger. Which also had the same makers mark. To me the pommel doesn't sit right. Althgh most pictures have portepee covering join.

**gerrit** · 01-09-2019, 11:00 AM

I posted a similar pattern cadets dagger by WKC some time ago, and indeed they come without the gripwire
Cadets navy dagger by WKC personalised v.Tschammer

A 1938 3rd Reich replacement pommel on an imperial is rare but possible, says TW and he has 1 listed for sale.
It would mean that the officer has served in both wars.
I dont know it it was permitted in the Weimar period to wear the Original Imperial pommel, but perhaps Oleg or Danny will tell us that

Ger

**thebig** · 01-09-2019, 06:56 PM

Hello Gentlemen,
I agree with Ger. The dagger seems to be a standard M1890 pattern cadet dagger.
In the Weimar period it was permitted to wear an imperial dagger, if an officer has served in the I world war. The eagle on the dagger of AllanM is an Alcoso one. Maybe it was used as replacement eagle, maybe it has been replaced also later. But, like Ger already said, the imperial daggers were worn with a replacement eagles during the third Reich time.
Here a picture of my M1890 pattern cadet dagger of the Kapitänleutnant Max Knaisel.
Best,
Oleg.

**AllanM** · 01-09-2019, 07:00 PM

Hi guys thanks a lot for your thoughts. So now I'm leaning towards getting it. As won't be something that is common and the changes to pommel are known. Mmm tough one.