Kriegsmarine 2nd model Puma etched dagger with silver scabbard

[dr73]

I think the pommel is a typical Puma product. Puma also used the sailing ship etch on their blades. But I'm not convinced the scabbard is pre 1945. It's true that Wittmann mentioned an original Eickhorn scabbard with non separate bands but I've never seen a real one in person and as some of you know, I've seen and handled a lot of navies. Even on the later Eickhorn navies with the late "over the shoulder" trademark I've only seen scabbards with separate scabbard bands. When you look at the detail of the bottom of the scabbard and compare them with originals there are clearly a few differences. The originals I show here have much more detail at the bottom. The first one is an Eickhorn scabbard, the second is a WKC scabbard. I also believe that there is no such thing as a silver coloured original navy scabbard.

Danny

[amiklic1]

The stop in manufacture of naval daggers came at the time when there was no good material to use, and lack of the details on the steel scabbards can be because the steel is not so good to deal with for the precise details.
I would love to see th edetailed photos of the lower part of the cabbard from the start of this thread, just to compare something.

SIlver colored scabbards were not in use, I also believe, but on my scabbard there is a lot of gilding on some recesses and not exposed parts.

These were nickel plate and than gilded, as gold gild is not holding the steel as good as silver, while on the early pieces there was no nickel plating as gold gilt holds to the brass bery well.

[amiklic1]

This is the typical Eickhorn scabbard mark, this asymmetrical arrow.
I doubt we will see it on a reproduction ;-).

[Wagriff]

The scabbard on this can only be one of 3 things-either a prototype, which is very much doubtful, as it has been tinkered with to allow the lock-in mechanism to be disabled-quite likely because it would not adapt to accepting it, or 2, a Extremely late war produced and relatively unseen and heard of style-something that, in my opinion, is asking for quite abit of "believe the story" credulity, or else, 3, a postwar repro/replacement sheath. The fact that the lock mechanism has been played with strengthens this particular option point. There are many points at which to focus that suggest this sheath is not genuine wartime issue. The embossed in bands and rings. The hanger attachment rings show Some small signs of usage, but not enough, in my opinion, to be accepted as normal every day usage in the suggested time period. The quite severely different engraving styles on things such as the ermine paws and lower sheath areas. In any of the 3 listed scenarios, this sheath is definitely not appropriate for this dagger, and if it were mine, I would search for a proper sheath to replace it with-as well as having the lock-in button and spring system replaced with period parts. But then again, if seen in it's present state, I would not have considered purchasing it to begin with...

[amiklic1]

How do we know that something has been tinkered with the scabbard, to accept the locking mechanism?
Am I missing a photo?

[amiklic1]

Today I will post a photos of my Alcoso silver scabbard (real one, with provenance but with just small amount of gold gild still existing).
It's similar in amount of details to this one, and when we compare it to earlier, brass models, with much less fine details, of course).

Steel Kriegsmarine scabbards are scarce, at least, as they were produced really late into the war period. Maybe we can tie the production of the steel scabbards to the end of Tombac kriegsmarine badges production, as that was the deadline where demand for the brass was higher than the metal supplies were.

By late 1943/early 1944, with the German’s worsening war situation, the ornamental Officer’s dagger was no longer deemed to be a dress requirement and regulations of February 25TH 1944 discontinued wear of the dagger. It's questionable how much daggers were produced in the last two years, but due to long-use of aval daggers I believe the production was declining greatly with every new month after somewhere in 1942.

[amiklic1]

Usually, only late Eickhorn daggers, with "over the shoulder" mark are seen with steel scabbards.
Usually, faked scabbards are not made of steel, as it is not so nice material to press in relation with brass,
so al the fakes I've seen (with pressed out bands) are made of brass or similar material.

Here is the one with steel scabbard on Tom Wittman's page, made by Horster:
Wittmann Militaria #35968 2nd Model Naval Dagger by E.F. Horster

[Wagriff]

Photo #5 clearly shows a missing throat screw, indicating that it has been disassembled. It no longer locks.

[amiklic1]

Photo #5 clearly shows a missing throat screw, indicating that it has been disassembled. It no longer locks.

Screw can be missing from a full list of various reasons, from "tinkering with" to cleaning and being lost before assembling it again.
It's been 70+ years since this baby has been produced, so we'll never know.

I am cleaning every dagger that comes to my collection from debris and dirt, as it's not a Mona Lisa and cleaning it is not like peeling the paint from the painting's canvas ;-)
It's pure mechanic.

[Wagriff]

This would still not explain it's no longer locking-personally, I would like to see that throat guide and what all it looks like, but in any case, If it's original, I have never encountered a Naval sheath with embossed hanger rings, amongst other things. Regardless, it is not something that I would have in my collection.