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Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

Article about: Hello Gents, yesterday i came across this curious KM dagger by W.K.C. It has a chained hanger, the hanger has the same patina as the scabbard and seems to be genuine. Thirst think that got i

  1. 07-10-2012, 07:49 AM #1
    gerrit
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    Default Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

    Hello Gents, yesterday i came across this curious KM dagger by W.K.C.
    It has a chained hanger, the hanger has the same patina as the scabbard and seems to be genuine.
    Thirst think that got in mind was that it could be an imperial dagger which got a KM pommel in 1938.
    I can imagine the chain was a private purchase before the Third Reich period, not during.
    The back of the plate of the hanger has a SM number in it and a year (1938).
    The links are solid and are soldered, and it looks like the scabbard and chain belong together.
    Never seen a grip like this either, couldnt make out what the material is, very shiny, and it looks like to be white beneath the black ( on a place where it had some wear, it shines thru).
    Any one seen this curious hanger/scabbard combo? any info is welcome!
    Sorry about the pics but cant make any better with my handy, next time my cam as usual

    Cheers Ger
    Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommelKriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel
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  2. 07-10-2012 07:49 AM # ADS
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    Circuit advertisement Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel
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  3. 07-10-2012, 08:07 AM #2
    Scout
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    Default re: Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

    Unfamiliar to me but good looking dagger
    . .
  4. 07-10-2012, 11:56 AM #3
    Larry C
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    Default re: Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

    Hi Gerrit your pics are great,, no worry. This for sure is a personalized piece as the owner must of had this made for him. One of a kind! I have seen these black gripped examples somewhere else,, but not to my knowledge on any 2nd model navals. If i am wrong someone please correct me and post a correct photo of the correct use. Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
    . .
  5. 07-17-2012, 01:26 AM #4
    Larry C
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    Default re: Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

    Anyone have any thoughts on this oddity? The chain and the Black grip? Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
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  6. 07-17-2012, 02:00 AM #5
    Wagriff
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    Default re: Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

    Black grips are only to be found on the immediate post-WWI KM daggers of 1919 and 1921. It looks to Me, at least, like someone from the Weimar-era Navy kept his dagger and swapped out pommels. He also paid extra to upgrade the standard scabbard to the pebble finished one. The strange chained hanger with the odd Anchor emblem affixed to it is possibly a custom made piece by the same officer and is nothing that I'm familiar with seeing. Would it have even been allowed to wear??
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
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  7. 07-17-2012, 05:45 PM #6
    Lakesidetrader
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    Default re: Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

    The scabbard bands have the enchancing we often see on Wiemar period pieces.
    Never say never though, I have seen a late war Eickhorn recently turn up a a hotel buy with a black grip. I have also had others tell me they have seen them on 3rd Reich daggers as well. Nope not in any books that I know of but we are all learning still.
    Can you tell us if the grip is solid or is it celluloid over wood?
    There looks to be some wee chips near the pommel, what is going on there?
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  8. 08-03-2012, 09:09 AM #7
    gerrit
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    Default re: Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with black grip chained hanger and M38 pommel

    Thx Gents for the replies!

    Another opinion on this one:

    i have shown this dagger to a serious naval collector friend of mine who has connections to one of the biggest experts on KM daggers in Germany.
    He knows this dagger, he has seen it on a Militaria Fair in Germany.
    His conclusions:
    For sure the pommel, blade and scabbard are original.
    The black grip ( weimar period) and chain were not aloud in the third reich period.
    Someone most have put this together after the war, it simply wasnt aloud.
    So i will take his advise to heart and skip this one.

    Ger
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« Kriegsmarine 2nd model E. Pack etched dagger silvered for administration with hammered scabbard | Kriegsmarine 2nd model WKC etched dagger with orange grip and portepee »

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