Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1 Klasse mit Schwertern

[jamie7d7]

And here is the KVK 1. mit schwertern.

It is priced at £175 and has the marking L/15 (Otto Shickle?)

Opinions welcome and thanks conveyed!

[rbminis]

I've not seen one with this catch set up before and the ones I have seen with this hinge are marked differently.
Wait for other opinions.
Ralph.

[Saladin]

Hello Jamie,
this is another good cross IMO.
If it didn't have the oval base plates on the hinge and hook it would be a dud but this one has.

I might also like to add that there is a vague chance it was assembled post war but I think the jury is out on that one. There is also some discussion that it is in fact an ORTH cross that has been mismarked...


I'd add it to my collection

Cheers
Doug

[jamie7d7]

Thanks @saldin It's my basket!!

[jamie7d7]

Hello Jamie,
this is another good cross IMO.
If it didn't have the oval base plates on the hinge and hook it would be a dud but this one has.

I might also like to add that there is a vague chance it was assembled post war but I think the jury is out on that one. There is also some discussion that it is in fact an ORTH cross that has been mismarked...


I'd add it to my collection

Cheers
Doug

Forgive my ignorance Doug but "ORTH"? I don't know the meaning of this. It will count towards my "you learn something new everyday" ha!

[Saladin]

Forgive my ignorance Doug but "ORTH"? I don't know the meaning of this. It will count towards my "you learn something new everyday" ha!

You and me both Jamie.
What Ralph mentioned above is correct.
There has been some considerable discussion on other forums about the cross that is marked 15 on the pin which is the manufacturer Friedrich Orth and the crosses marked L15 (not to be confused with L/15 the PK number for Schickle)'

It transpires that both the 15 and L15 crosses are identical therefore made imo that both marked crosses are made by the Orth firm.

Further to the discussion was when these crosses were made.
I believe that they were produced in the wartime and not post 1945.
I would be happy to have this cross in my collection some others may not

Cheers
Doug

[spunkmaja]

For me this is an postwar Rudolf Souval cross with the typical claw catch.

These L15 maker marks can also be found on Souval KVK2 and Ostmedaille.

/Jonas

[Saladin]

I have to disagree Jonas:
Here is what the typical postwar Souval made piece and the claw catch that you mention:




The piece that Jamie has is a correctly marked Orth zinc Cross with the typical stamped hook and oval base plate:



Best regards
Doug

[spunkmaja]

Thanks for the feedback Doug. I know these L15 KVK1 has been widely debated. My main concern if this should be an Orth cross is the L15 mark and the round base plate for the hinge. Why should Orth suddenly start to mark their crosses with L15? Could it be a postwar Orth cross?

Also there are Floch made fakes marked L15, but this IMO is not a Floch fake since the cross has the round base plate for the hinge.

/Jonas

[Saladin]

Hello Jonas.
In my opinion these L15 crosses are wartime and could have been marked L15 when Orth transitioned from the 15 stamp.
There is as far as I know no documented evidence as far as I am aware that mentions this anomoaly.
As I mentioned earlier it is my opinion that these are wartime crosses.

The Floch reproduction is a different pebble design.

I guess we will never know whether these crosses were made pre or post may '45.

I haven't received any in the numerous vet collections so perhaps that tells a story?

I do believe that Souval and or Orth were more than likely still knocking TR awards out for long periods after the war but the cross that started the thread isn't one of these.

Doug