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EU gun law proposals and the end of re-enactment in Europe

Article about: Hi Guys, this is serious. The anti gun lobby in the EU are seeking to piggyback the terrorist attack in Paris to further their anti gun political agenda. MAKE NO MISTAKE, this will kill our

  1. #1

    Default EU gun law proposals and the end of re-enactment in Europe

    Hi Guys, this is serious.

    The anti gun lobby in the EU are seeking to piggyback the terrorist attack in Paris to further their anti gun political agenda.

    MAKE NO MISTAKE, this will kill our hobby by this summer....

    I request EVERYONE sign here:

    Rather than re write this, here is an email I got from a good friend and dealer Ian Durrant:

    As I am sure some of you will have heard by now the EU has come out with a knee Jerk reaction new Legislation due to come into effect after next July, on the back of the new draconian standards for deactivation due in February 2016, however in case you haven't I thought I'd email everyone just in case as we are all going to need to get together on this and write to MEP's, MP's and the Home Secretary ASAP, the new deac standards are due to be law in February and in force 3 months later, this will mean that all LMG/MG etc will have to be dead welded, magazines welded in to everything, visible slots in revolver barrels and much more. However the massive sting in the tail is the July Regulation.

    I am still trying to digest the ramifications but at the moment all appears to me as explained below, but at the moment the July regulation will mean at the least:

    The ownership of the following deactivated weapons will be banned:
    SMG's, MG's, LMG's, any Semi Auto assault type rifle that looks like a military weapon (so terrorists would turn their noses up at one that doesn't then),

    All Live or deactivated Artillery, mortars, tank guns, aircraft guns, even the torpedo tubes on a preserved MTB, there is no date or calibre limit so in effect whether it is a 25Pr gun or a Boer war period 12Pr (depending on how the law is interpreted with regard to obsolete calibre and firing replicas, possibly also civil war cannon!) it will be banned, and don't think it can be got away with by putting it 'on ticket' These type of weapons will be put on a list of Prohibited Weapons under the heading of 'Any weapon capable of firing a military explosive projectile'.

    All deactivated weapons will have to brought up to the new EU spec before they are sold (shotguns, pistols, bolt action rifles is all that will left).

    All deactivated weapons retained will have to be Registered-what this means we don't know yet. But how are the police going to register 50,000 plus deactivated weapons (including the stuff to be banned)?

    So what about museums? Well they will be able to keep what they have but it will have to be deactivated, can you imagine Bovingdon Tank Museum, the Royal Armouries Pattern Room, The Brussels tank museum, The IWM having to deactivate every gun they have?

    And remember this affects the WHOLE of Europe, so while the EU is a faceless body there is a vast number of people and businesses who are starting the fight back, but we don't have much time. So, step one, sign the petition (link below).

    Step Two write and visit your MP, write to your MEP and The Home secretary, you can write to both your MP and MEP at the web site below very easily. There is a stakeholders meeting at the HO very soon so letters to the HO ASAP would be useful. The level of correspondence in 2005 helped to stop the VCR act ban on deact's, this time however we are fighting the faceless EU.

    You should also point out that the weapons used at Charlie Hebdo and Paris were black market AK47 and in the Charlie Hebdo attack they were reconverted blank firers which had been used for drill parades not reactivated deactivated weapons, the authorities have no real handle on the scale of black market supplies, but with all the AK's floating round in the Balkans after the conflicts there supply through organised crime will be simple enough. I have met Serbians and Bosnians who have told me they routinely slept with an AK under the bed in their own countries.

    Make the powers that be aware of what is happening, but what is going to really worry them is the cost in compensation, you can Cite the EU Human Right act which clearly says that payment has to be made and also the precedent set by the Pistol ban in the UK. It is the national Governments that will have to foot the bill not the EU so when they realise that this will cost hundreds of millions of pounds/euro's this might have an effect, think of things like Lewis Guns, Vickers Guns, the loss in value of the retained weapons, the loss of historical pieces as museums cannot hold everything, the costs to the owner of a Spitfire or a replica Sopwith Camel, or Sherman Tank or Chieftan etc. And then start factoring in all the spare parts that will be of no use, and like the pistol ban will have us demanding compensation for them and for businesses loss of future business.

    I know many of us went though this is 2004/5/6 with the VCR act and then a couple of scares after that, but this is serious and threatens every collector and every related business in the UK. We stopped the VCR bill, perhaps, maybe, just maybe, we can make the EU see sense by pressuring our own Government?

    Last; join the Deactivated Weapons Association ASAP and also spread the word and get everyone active, the bigger the authorities realise this is the better the chance we have of overturning this legislation by getting the HO to understand and then the EU, the scale and size of this. We are not just a handful of people with a niche hobby easily walked over, we are many!

    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  2. #2


    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.

    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  3. #3


    UK members, please act upon this:

    Hello All,

    Gist of an email I received this morning

    We have been told that the proposals for altering the EU Firearms Directive (including the banning aspect for Category A firearms covering deactivated automatic firearms and others, the requirement for a registration scheme for deactivated firearms and controls on distance selling of deactivated firearms) are due to be discussed at a meeting of the EU Committee on the Internal Market and Consumer Protection (IMCO) on 7th December. According to the agenda (attached), the committee will have a presentation about the Directive after which I assume there will be questions and discussion. As I understand it the purpose of this committee is to review the draft (proposals) before they are put to vote. Our UK representative on this committee is Daniel Dalton who is a Conservative MEP. It is now exceptionally important that you either email or write to Mr Dalton so that he fully understands the implications of the proposals and how unpopular it is amongst UK collectors and the trade.

    His contact details are:

    Daniel Dalton, MEP

    Constituency Office
    Office S4, Berkeley House,
    6-8 The Square, Kenilworth,
    Warwickshire, CV8 1EB.

    Email: / /

    I suggest that you start your communication with something along the lines of 'I understand that you are the UK representative on the EU IMCO and that at the forthcoming meeting of this group on 7th December you will be receiving a presentation on proposals for amending the EU's Firearm Directive 91/477/EEC.' After this you need to explain the implications and ask for his support in challenging and opposing the proposals. Obviously you have the sample letters from us sent previously that you can pick bits from, but in brief try to cover the main points that we put on the MP Flyer (attached again to this email) - not properly considered, unworkable, impact on Police, compensation implications, impact on other industries, etc. Remember your comments need to concentrate on the proposals for amending the Directive (banning aspect for Category A firearms covering deactivated automatic firearms and other,s the requirement for a registration scheme for deactivated firearms and controls on distance selling of deactivated firearms) as this is what is being covered in the meeting (not the new EU deactivation spec).

    This is really important as it is probably our best opportunity to challenge the draft before the proposal goes to vote.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  4. #4


    Whilst it is still legal we should have a re enactment march into London with the so called dangerous items by our side, and gain signatures of every person we see on the way, what a sight that would be, British, US, German in there masses .
    "and when he gets to heaven,
    to saint peter he will tell:
    "Just another marine reporting, sir
    I've served my time in hell."

  5. #5


    Scary Stuff Ade..I wish I could sign also.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #6


    For what is it worth I have written to Daniel Dalton MEP. I must stress that the views in my email are mine alone and I do not wish to enter into any debate about the ownership of firearms. What is being discussed here are deactivated weapons and I think the appropriate response is to make a clear distinction between live and deactivated guns. The ownership of firearms is always contentious and if a distinction can be made between something that is potentially dangerous and can hurt somebody with something that is just a harmless lump of historically important metal and wood then I think it can do our cause no harm.


    I understand that you are the UK representative on the EU IMCO and that at the forthcoming meeting of this group on 7th December you will be receiving a presentation on proposals for amending the EU's Firearm Directive 91/477/EEC. I am contacting you regarding this matter.
    I am a collector of World War II militaria and amongst the uniforms, helmets, etc I have a number of deactivated WW2 guns. I feel passionately about my hobby, not just the physical items I own but the history and sacrifice behind them. I feel it is important that we honour and remember those who sacrificed their lives for us which is why I display my collection whenever I am able to do so, especially towards the younger generation.
    Whilst I am under no illusion that guns are dangerous and need to be properly licensed, monitored and their owners vetted what is being discussed here are deactivated guns, guns that no longer have the ability to fire, guns that are effectively lumps of wood and metal, however, serve as a reminder of the sacrifices made by those who served in WW2. Banning deactivated guns does not bring back those killed by terrorist atrocities, it will not stop further terrorist attacks and will not stop murders, shootings and gun crime. This is because these guns have been rendered useless, incapable of being fired or 'reactivated'. The guns used in these atrocities and crimes are 'live' black market guns, guns that are and have always been illegal to own and possess. The UK (thankfully) does not have a major gun issue unlike other EU countries and countries around the world, this is due to the measures put in place already by our Government (and which have been in place for many years). Crimes involving deactivated guns are very rare in the UK and in fairness those who have committed crimes with them could easily have done so with toy guns or something they knocked up in their shed. Remember, the important thing here is that these guns are deactivated - incapable of being fired and incapable of being reworked to ever fire again. I would also like to add (in case you are unaware) that the UK deactivation requirements are currently higher than those in the EU.
    I say this, not as a 'gun nut', firearms dealer or gun fan. I believe that we, the UK, have some of the strongest but most appropriate firearms laws in the world which is why the level of gun crime is at the level it is. I see no reason as to why a member of the public should have access to automatic weapons and they are quite rightly banned. I am not a licensed firearms holder and have no desire to be one. I am, however, a collector of historical artefacts from WW2 and want to be able to honour those who served their country.
    Whilst the above is purely my own personal reasons there are also obvious financial implications for the UK Government and National museums and collections. As I am led to understand the restrictions being considered are a total ban on deactivated automatic weapons. This would warrant the total destruction of rare, important, historical firearms kept in National and private collections which would have to be financially compensated. There is not only the financial cost of the compensation but the cost of setting up an office and associated staff to arrange and organise the compensation, the financial cost of their collection, storage and disposal. All of this would have to be footed by the UK Government. Another of the restrictions is to ensure that those deactivated guns that are allowed to remain (rifles, shotguns and pistols) are completely welded shut and are licensed with the Police. Again the UK Government will have to foot the bill for this. Quite how the Police will manage this further impact on their time and budgets in light of the current financial and staffing situation I don't know.
    The other side of the coin is to look at the financial implications of those who will lose their businesses, livelihoods and jobs, those who deal in deactivated guns, reenactment and associated businesses. The financial impact on National and (public accessed) private collections who will have dispose of exhibits and other associated costs.
    There would also be the costs involved in changing the law, subsequent Court cases, etc.
    Unfortunately this again screams at a knee jerk, unworkable, contradictory EU directive.
    How can a deactivated WW1 Vickers machine gun or wing mounted machine gun in a Spitfire be banned and destroyed because it 'looks like' an automatic weapon and could be a 'terrorist threat' but a modern deactivated rifle be allowed? All were previously firearms now rendered incapable of firing, they could all (quite rightly) be perceived as a live firearm in the wrong circumstances but would generate exactly the same response from the Police.
    How and why should the Police hold a record for deactivated guns, guns that cannot be fired? What purpose would it serve? If a deactivated gun were to be used in crime unless it was left at the scene it could not be positively identified to anybody.
    If deactivated guns are to be licensed then are they to be locked in gun safes as well? What use would a museum be if the few weapons they were left with were locked away?
    Why would a reenactor be allowed a replica of an original firearm but not an original deactivated one? If the EU are to ban replica guns how do you reenact a WW1 or WW2 battle??

    We in the UK are quite rightly proud of the exploits of our forefathers in WW1 and WW2 and this is reflected in the amount of time and money spent on films, television programs and newspaper and magazine articles relating to these conflicts and others beside which are abundant and I would argue are produced or available on a daily basis. There are a significant number (I included) who collect militaria in an effort not to glorify war but to remember sacrifices made. Part of the portrayal of a servicemen is the weapon that they used.

    If you have read this far then I thank you for your time. If I can ask anything from you then it is for you to take from this that the UK has tough, stringent and appropriate laws in relation to firearms in place already. Why should we, the UK tax payer and Government face the financial bill for an ill conceived and unjust directive brought in by the EU. Something needs to be done about the terrorist threat and gun crime in general, targeting law abiding, historical collectors who own an article that is incapable of firing any projectile is not the way to go about it.
    Surely this is akin to reacting to somebody attacking people with a samurai sword by banning chefs from using kitchen knives?

    Yours sincerely'

  7. #7


    I signed it.
    It asks what country you are from. It doesn't say you will not be counted if you are not in the EU.
    To me it just Gives the Brits 1 more reason to withdraw from the EU.

  8. #8


    I should have added that if anybody wants to bastardise, copy bits of, rewrite or just send my email in their name then please do so.

  9. #9


    I also signed it!
    I'm not sure if being from across the pond makes a difference, But I hope it helps.

    I wish you all the best!


    Semper Fi

  10. #10


    Done, hope it helps!


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