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2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

Article about: by Frogprince With night or day, and the immediate outside conditions (like weather) of different parts of the world I don’t have a problem with artificial lighting as a way to capture image

  1. #11

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    In most cases when portepee is long time on the dagger, took "bluish" color as a scabbard. (traces of patina and dust that has moved away from the dagger to portepee)
    With this, rope of portepee, is closely tied to the dagger, almost like it was glued.
    Your portepee very well placed on the dagger, and do not, under miscellaneous, remove from the dagger.

    Regards
    Vedran

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  3. #12
    ?

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    after all thats been said i want to add 1 thing more:
    The crossguard and pommel are made of alumium, that material will not build up a nice patina.
    the sheath/scabbard is iron, that will/can build up patina if the laquer/silverwash is gone.
    This dagger looks like its been cleaned a lot in the past, and it prop. been layed a way for a while, making the iron to build up patina by moisture etc...the alu parts will prop. always stay this color.
    So i would not be bothered by not matching colors...

    Cheers Ger
    Last edited by gerrit; 03-25-2013 at 12:54 PM.

  4. #13

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    Gerrit, currently in the world there is no metal, which do not oxidized due to age.
    Aluminium when oxidized, resulting with "yellow dust" and can also be gray.
    In addition to these, metal accumulates dirt, which is transferred to the age to portepee.

    Regards
    Vedran

  5. #14
    ?

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    Verdran,

    due to the use of different materials, there will not a matching patina/color if the top laquer or finish is gone.
    Alu will hardly change, only get dull a little, ive seen a lot of alu swords, some look as they were produced yesterday.
    Iron will change in color if moisture in the air is to high.

    but Verdran I agree with you about oxidation if the condition of storage is very bad, then alu will get worse.

    Cheers,
    Ger

  6. #15
    ?

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    I would also encourage you to study our past threads as there are many various makers of 2nd Model Luftwaffe daggers. You will be able to compare the minute differences,,between the various makers of this artistically created dagger. Enjoy your walk!


    Man, its starting to look like a hike...

  7. #16
    ?

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    Quote by Rancid66 View Post
    In most cases when portepee is long time on the dagger, took "bluish" color as a scabbard. (traces of patina and dust that has moved away from the dagger to portepee)
    With this, rope of portepee, is closely tied to the dagger, almost like it was glued.
    Your portepee very well placed on the dagger, and do not, under miscellaneous, remove from the dagger.

    Regards
    Vedran
    Hay thanks I was thinking the same thing...I was sitting down looking at it and turning it over in my hands,there is absolutely no way i could retie it if i wanted to...Its part of it and it staying.

  8. #17
    ?

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    Quote by gerrit View Post
    This dagger looks like its been cleaned a lot in the past, and it prop. been layed a way for a while, making the iron to build up patina by moisture etc...the alu parts will prop. always stay this color.
    So i would not be bothered by not matching colors...
    I can tell you it has been sitting in a basement drawer for 40 years in stored in a wool sock,I could never say if it was cleaned or polished but it certainly was never out or on display.

  9. #18

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    With night or day, and the immediate outside conditions (like weather) of different parts of the world I don’t have a problem with artificial lighting as a way to capture images for posting online. But in trying to figure out just what the condition is of an item (or how it was made) I tend to like sunlight and very close examinations. That said and speaking generally, iron/steel with exposure to the elements such as moisture, form red oxides (rust) that often gradually becomes blacker in color. With chemically induced rust which is (relatively) fairly stable, seen in period use as layers of brown or blue oxides on the (iron based) metals.

    With natural exposure to the elements, the oxides of both zinc and aluminum are white in color (which is why both are commonly used in some sunscreens). Sorry dagger guys: With aluminum which is clear anodized, being a thin chemically induced oxide layer over the aluminum which protects it, allowing its silver color to come through. And the deeper gray color usually a thicker layer of natural oxides over the silver colored (raw/freshly exposed) base metal. But zinc which is a fairly “active” metal is not as fortunate, and will literally be eaten away with continued exposure to moisture and other factors. Turning an even deeper dark color over time without exposure to some of the more harmful elements. And zinc being one of the (protective) metals that was used to plate steel scabbards to keep them from becoming covered in rust. And depending on the maker and time period, sometimes besides just zinc plating, metallic zinc chromate was also used, and zinc phosphate on top of either that also assisted in preventing or inhibiting corrosion.

    With the “bottom line” being that I don’t see in the latest images what looks like old rust as compared to aged zinc - and in sunlight this dagger might be in a much better condition than the current darker images seem to portray it. Best Regards, Fred

  10. #19

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    Quote by kgrunt View Post
    Man, its starting to look like a hike...
    This what will build your knowledge leg muscles,, as in this hobby it is best to try to carry your own weight and research for yourself,, and if a student can not find the answer then ask the teachers and the knowledgeable. Too many people come on here and dont want to try for themselves and will walk with crutches as long as they collect. I know you are trying KG...its the one night standers that come and go on here.

    Quote by Frogprince View Post
    .

    With natural exposure to the elements, the oxides of both zinc and aluminum are white in color (which is why both are commonly used in some sunscreens). Sorry dagger guys:
    Now I know what to use as an alternative of Ren Wax...and maybe get a bunny to rub it on my dagger
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  11. #20

    Default Re: 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger

    Personally, I would not want to use even the much discussed Ren Wax over zinc that was in the process of decomposing itself. But that's just me. With the example here that was described as a silver "SS" saber being just one example of what happens, with the I believe fairly well known seller having successfully sold the sword based on his representations. Not a more recent example, this is only one of multiple comparable ones that have exhibited this appearance - the white substance in the recesses is zinc oxide. Which the seller as I recall described as "patina". And from my perspective encapsulating the zinc is, and was not going to be a long term solution. Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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