Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 31

98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

Article about: Thanks Richie The deal is done, and know I wait...................... Best Henrik

  1. #21
    ?

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    Nice WW1 marked M98/05 Seitengewehr ( Wilhelm 1915)
    Always a joy to see its history on the weapon.
    Being used later prop. by the "Luftschutz" police units ( part of the RLM)

    i have found some of these beauty's on the battlefield of Verdun in my diggin days

    BTW: i think Sleepwalker is spot on in this case, its not a Luftwaffe Sg.

    Cheers,
    Ger

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #22

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    Well yeah technically that is true but RLM became the Luftwaffe after 1935. As stated on earlier thread, Wheeler and a lot of other Authors refer to them as pre war and early formation of Luftwaffe.

  4. #23

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    now... this informations are IMO wrong...

    The RLM never became he Luftwaffe after 1935... the RLM, in his own area of responsibility, existed until 1945. In the responsibility of the RLM was the Luftschutz, the technical bureau and the Luftschutzpolizei.

    The DLV was under the control of the RLM... Bayonets were not used there.

    In 1935 the Luftwaffe were build up as a Part of he Wehrmacht (Wehrmacht-Luftwaffe). The Standard bayonet became the S84/98. All the weopons of the Luftwaffe were supplied / ordered from the Waffenamt (WaA) and bears WaA Acceptance stamps. You can see no differences between S84/98 of the Heer or the Luftwaffe. Because of a lack of Production of the S84/98 in the first time in Heer, Luftwaffe and Marine S98/05 were also used. This S98/05 were refreshed and get a WaA acceptance, not one of the RLM... In 1942 S98/05 were issued to Luftwaffe Units in higher quantity, because of the lack of equipment. These S98/05 out of old Stocks are only blued, modified and numbered, in the way the order of 1934 manage it. But the Supply never came from the RLM, always Wehrmacht stocks and WaA.

    The SHD of the Luftschutz were build up and get in the war (not earlyer) old or foreign Weapons. Pictures still exist. Many S98/05 and frogs has LS stamps (=Luftschutz) and RLM Stamps. The year of Production of this frogs are always 1941 or 1942. So IMO the main time of issuing the S98/05 to the Luftschutz SHD lay in this time. In 1942 the SHD was transformed in the Luftschutzpolizei.
    So, the Luftschutzpolizei (Air Surveillance Police) used this S98/05 too.

    The Luftschutz understands the RLM and was a civil Organisation (like the Police or the Firemen). The Luftschutz men were not a Part of the Army or the Airforce.

    The opinion LS means "Luftwaffenschule" is wrong... a "Lufwaffenschule" never exist.

    Regards
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020778.JPG 
Views:	139 
Size:	154.8 KB 
ID:	526415   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020789.JPG 
Views:	59 
Size:	158.6 KB 
ID:	526416  


  5. #24

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    So RLM was Luftschutz not LW I trust your knowledge sounds ok there are sure a lot of book authors that got it wrong then. (see Wheelers Seitengewher) Luftschutz was air protection I know they had a dagger but are these the bayonets they used? Wheeler shows Luftwaffe troops with them. At least that is what he writes in his reference. Timothy

  6. #25

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    I have a ground WW1 ex sawback bayonet like yours shown that is blued with no Waa just WW1 Marks will try to post a picture of it. Would this be used by the Luftwaffe then? because in his book he just describes them as Weimer reworks. Thanks timothy

  7. #26

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    Quote by timothy View Post
    So RLM was Luftschutz not LW I trust your knowledge sounds ok there are sure a lot of book authors that got it wrong then. (see Wheelers Seitengewher) Luftschutz was air protection I know they had a dagger but are these the bayonets they used? Wheeler shows Luftwaffe troops with them. At least that is what he writes in his reference. Timothy
    Yes, this bayontes and captured ones were used. There also exist dress bayonets with RLM symbols (a lo of fakes also exist).

    - - Updated - -

    Quote by timothy View Post
    I have a ground WW1 ex sawback bayonet like yours shown that is blued with no Waa just WW1 Marks will try to post a picture of it. Would this be used by the Luftwaffe then? because in his book he just describes them as Weimer reworks. Thanks timothy
    This is difficult. I can be all.... Police, Heer, RAD, Luftwaffe, RLM so on

  8. #27

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    During the Weimar era there was the precursor Reichswehrministerium, with the development of aircraft at the time a function of the the Army’s Heereswaffenamt. But with Hitler becoming the Chancellor in 1933 there were changes, and the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM) was created early in 1933 moving into its new headquarters in January of 1935 only a few months before the Luftwaffe became “officially” known as the air force of the Third Reich. With the RLM now in charge of development and production of aircraft primarily for the German Air Force (Luftwaffe), but also for commercial applications. There were a lot of TR era personality-driven things going on in the background not the least of which was Hermann Göring who was the Reichsminister der Luftfahrt. Who much of the time seemed to be at odds with Heinrich Himmler. And with a very large bombing raid in the middle of 1942 - where it overwhelmed the ability of the SHD to respond. Himmler it seems triumphed once again with what was now the Luftschutzpolizei (and Techische Hilfspolizei) put under his control, with some other factors that are probably beyond a limited discussion.

    With one area where I have a small difference of opinion being: “This S98/05 were refreshed and get a WaA acceptance”. With the short version being that among especially some German pistol collectors similar markings are considered to be legitimate period rework markings - but not WaA acceptance markings. With roughly comparable markings also being found on some period SG 84/98 Weimar era reworked bayonets along with TR era rework markings. And Imperial/Weimar era P. 08 pistols sometimes with later TR era parts etc. But with numbers in the WaA series of commission numbers like a “4” - but minus the WaA having other letter type identifiers as well as different types of markings (sometimes, not always). Best Regards, Fred

  9. #28

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    you can also find a MG10 or a SU25 accaptance... this is the place of the depot... Suhl and Magdeburg.

    others have M stamps for Mainz.

    RLM ist not a accaptance. This is a property marking of the Reichsluftfahrtministerium. The bayontes of the Luftwaffe were property of the Wehrmacht and don´t use property markings.

    The RLM bayontes are a interesting field for police bayonet collectors. But the have nothing to do with a "hidden Airforce" before 1935.

    Regards

  10. #29

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    There exist different types of the S98/05 for the SHD / Luftschutzpolizei (NOT Luftwaffe!)

    here a blued one with the RLM stamp on the grossguard.

    The bayonet is in his origianal frog with the original knot (SHD used Luftwaffe knots but no wehrmacht-WL insiginas)
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040197.JPG 
Views:	148 
Size:	158.5 KB 
ID:	544803   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040200.JPG 
Views:	91 
Size:	156.1 KB 
ID:	544804  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1040206.JPG 
Views:	148 
Size:	157.0 KB 
ID:	544805  

  11. #30

    Default Re: 98/05 RLM stampet butcher, what do you think ?

    and a other version.

    never blued, with RLM + number on the Top of the pommel

    also in his original frog
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1080430.JPG 
Views:	116 
Size:	168.5 KB 
ID:	544808   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1080431.JPG 
Views:	186 
Size:	165.8 KB 
ID:	544809  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1080433.JPG 
Views:	94 
Size:	167.2 KB 
ID:	544811   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1080452.JPG 
Views:	78 
Size:	176.8 KB 
ID:	544812  


Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. My butcher bayonet.

    In K98 Bayonet
    01-16-2012, 11:44 PM
  2. Butcher bayonet

    In Bayonets and trench knives of the world
    01-15-2012, 09:30 PM
  3. Butcher Bayonets

    In Imperial Germany and Austro-Hungary
    01-10-2012, 08:50 PM
  4. Butcher's Buckles

    In Feuerwehr & Other Civil Buckles
    03-10-2010, 05:15 PM
  5. Butcher Bird: FW190

    In Aircraft
    02-20-2010, 12:21 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •