02-02-2014 10:18 AM
Hi Jonas, still looking for a Luftwaffe - you should have bought mine. lol
yes the scabbard leather looks possibly gone but it can be replaced but not a cheap job. Wittman is about $150 to do it. The fittings look an odd shape and battered. Also missing a screw so you need to ask yourself whats been going on there.
Both Chains are one ring short to be textbook. Could have been shortened periodly so not the end of the world but really you want to see 6 smaller rings at the top and 9 lower rings.
Sadly not a marked clip, which collectors do like to see on these later pieces.
The swaz's have lost allot of the gilt, they never are in demand when this happens so allow for the price.
Blades a worry fella, probably don't need to say that. Also has a replacement leather washer, its too thick to be original.
Beings you asked I wouldn't bother. But as my father say 'he who pays the piper calls the tune' - (your paying mate so its your call).
In general chains were 9 upper and 14 lower and some varied by the producer...or the "wearer if he was shorter".....Im curious for other comments if Alcoso made aluminum examples. The blade appears to be the early nickel plated type. Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hi Larry, your thinking of the nickel version mate they have 9 and 14 rings. The aluminium used allot bigger rings so didn't need as many.
In my reference book (wittman - exploring the dress daggers of the german luftwaffe) there is only one alcoso dagger. It is not alu but the chain is and is has 7 rings on the upper and 10 on the lower.
But there also appears to be other makes who have much more. I have an example of "F. & A. Helbig", and they have 10 on the upper and 15 on the lower.
Like you said Larry. Seem to differ from maker to maker etc
Length of the first Model Luftwaffe dagger hanger is depended mostly on the choice of individual NCO or officers.
(Officers height , manner of walking.)
Therefore was important to determine the required length of dagger hanger - for dagger stability, during the walk.
Hi Jonas, the nickel Luftwaffe you meantioned in wittmans book is a transitional nickel version utilising a aluminiuim chain so it will only have six smaller eyes on the top (or seven if you count the main ring too) and 9 lower (or 10 if you count the main ring on the scabbard too).
The nickel version on the higher chain will have nine (plus the scabbard ring so 10), and fourteen on the lower chain (or 15 including the scabbard ring).
The nickel chain was very elegant, small rings very precise. The aluminium was large rings put together as fast and as cheaply as possible.
Anyway this is the amount of rings each model would have had from the beginning be it aluminium or nickel. Although I like to have the 'full' amount of rings in the chain, I think it is acceptable to lose one or two as long as the amount is kept symmetrical off each length of chain otherwise the angle of which the dagger when worn wouldn't be correct.
I can never understand why people felt 1st pattern chains needed to be altered. If you think about it you cannot alter an army dagger strap because it is one piece. The same went for the 2nd pattern Luftwaffe strap hangers - the dagger hung where it hung.
Why did it seem necessary to mess about with these chains as NO other dagger hanger was adjustable?
Always makes me wonder if shortened chains was periodly done or whether a link broke and it was just repaired.
For this reason I like my FULL chains because as Im not convinced.
all my opinion not the gospel!
I would let this Luft at the sellers place.
Its been messed with to much.
It looks like the fittings have been sprayed with Alu paint.
the blade is not looking good, dont spoil your money on a bad one like this.