Luftwaffe 2nd pattern by puma for review

[chuck303]

Offered this and may go for it if all checks out. Puma 2nd model dagger with crack in handle. Are the fittings, scabbard and makers mark correct for this make?

[chuck303]

Everything on this piece looks correct I can still see cross-grain in the steel blade. I just thought I would post this to get a few opinions

[chuck303]

Guys does this piece seem correct ? Fittings etc seem extra clean. ....

[BrodieBartfast]

It looks very clean to me too. That doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, just that it may have been very well stored and looked after over the years.

Here's another Puma dagger shown elsewhere on the forum, and certified as genuine. Should help in regards to a comparison.



Unfortunately I can be of no more help, as I don't collect daggers.

B.B.

[chuck303]

Looks like the one pictured above looks highly detailed . The one on the bottom looks abit soft..

[Rossi]

Hey Chuck,

I am on my back with some back stuff so I cannot get to a laptop. My phone can not access picture well through the Forum app. Here is an old thread on a puma 2nd model Luft from 2012 if it will help. Again I cannot open pics from it for some dang reason so hope it helps. I cannot tell if prior owner might have cleaned it up a bit.

Luftwaffe Dagger for Review - Puma, 2nd Type

[Rossi]

Chuck,

I was able to get to my lap top and mess with the old threads photos and yours. I blew them up best I could. Forgive me as I am on some pain meds for some back stuff. I will give my thoughts and see what others think as well. Maybe another look tomorrow will be better for me but take a look at the photos of the puma model dagger from the 2012 thread. They are side by side look at motto, ferrule ring, crossguards front and back along with pommel. I am no expert on the guard differences in 2nd model lufts. Puma made high quality knives and daggers even up til today.

The biggest things I see are:

- Look at rough pommel detail and lack of stippling and crude detail on your pommel compared to the other two. Also the double circle around the swaz seems junked up with flaws.

- The adlers head on cross guard and wing and breast details looks weird or off to me compared to the other examples. Now could the white grips had a different style guard and pommel that I will see what the other dagger guys say. I only have one of these in my collection.

- The ferrule ring is different laurel leaves.

- Handle wire on yours is a little different that the other two in its nature. Maybe not as clean or as fitted to the handle? Unsure there.

- Blade motto looks to be very similar if not exact.

- The guard back pebbling on yours looks flattened and edges of guard seem rough. It is not as crisp and clean as the others. It is odd not to see patina on the guards, eagle and pommel.

So I am either over thinking it, its my pain meds looping me up or your dagger is not right. I will see what others say about this long winded assessment. Someone with better knowledge than I may have greater knowledge about various guards or time period materials in which your dagger was made. I am not a fan of it now that I did some digging as I have 3 puma knives and daggers in my collection and they are always pristine and stellar in their manufacturing.






Also here are some photos from another totally separate Puma 2nd model Luft Model dagger showing the same up close details.

[chuck303]

Brody thank you for your response and the pictures. I think you are right as far as differences in the cross guard pebbling seems soft or flat as well as the eagle detail... it looks like the eagle has very little and poor detail on the wings and breast feathers I'm wondering if this is possibly a late war variant I'm not sure it seems a bit sloppy, maybe a cast fake..? Im sure others will chime in soon.
I am also having major issues with the mobile website .cant view pics or upload them or switch to desktop..

[Rossi]

Brody thank you for your response and the pictures. I think you are right as far as differences in the cross guard pebbling seems soft or flat as well as the eagle detail... it looks like the eagle has very little and poor detail on the wings and breast feathers I'm wondering if this is possibly a late war variant I'm not sure it seems a bit sloppy, maybe a cast fake..? Im sure others will chime in soon.
I am also having major issues with the mobile website .cant view pics or upload them or switch to desktop..

Chuck,

Yes I am wondering if pot metal fittings and details being poor or later war construction. The pommel for me is the worst part. Wait for others as well to chime in. The blade looks great. I still kind of agree with you she seems pretty clean. Worth dissecting it and making sure. Rossi

[Rossi]

Chuck,

Also just digging some more since I cannot sleep. "Puma" firm was a rarer maker of the 2nd model Luftwaffe dagger I believe. This example below has the highly detailed WKC style fittings with a "blued" or "airplane gray" finish and gilt swastikas on the dark gray pommel cap. Puma like others like were known for buying their parts from major firms like WKC. I have seen the WKC fittings on daggers like this. I also think with the "generic" style scabbard that we also tend to attribute to the same WKC firm.

Rossi

Click to enlarge detail on another Puma Example with WKC Fittings:



Here for Reference is my WKC 2nd Model Luftwaffe Dagger: