Luftwaffe forestry knife Waffen-Loesche Ch. A. W.

[Larry C]

This is one currently forsale on Tom Wittmanns site " void of any extra markings "
I just wanted to add this in to show the difference.

Regards Larry

[Larry C]

Side by side

Gers pic on top ....take notice to the size of the ricasso and the letter fonts

[Wilhelm Saris]

a reaction of one of my friends (well-known with the forestry organization), not a visitor of forums, to post 136:

As previous mentioned (by Wilhelm) it is very doubtful the Forstschutzkommando used the “Waffen-Loesche knife”. In the Reichsministerialblatt der Forstverwaltung number 6 of February 5th 1940 page 37 the uniform and weapons are mentioned: Die Bewaffnung besteht aus Gewehr, Seitengewehr, Pistole, Maschinenpistole und leichten Maschinengewehren . So a „normal“ bayonet (Seitengewehr) was issued to the FSK. FSK-men had to work with their equipment, so what’s the point having a Waffen-Loesche knife when on duty? A matching rifle and bayonet would be preferred. Photographs already posted on this thread show FSK-men with bayonets.

Probably the dress version for walking out dress.
As for a walking out dress, they had to use the uniform as issued to them. I can’t find anything about a so called Rock B (parade dress) as in the Forestry regulations. The Reichsministerialblatt says Das Forstschutzkommando erhält eine besondere Uniform aus olivbraunem Tuch mit grünen Kragenspiegeln. So an olive-brown uniform with green collar patches was issued. A special arm eagle was introduced. Did they wear Luftwaffe clothing? Yes, photos indicated that. I have photographs of a Luftwaffe Soldbuch, issued 1944 to a Forstschutzkorps “Förstschütze”. The man was issued a Fliegerbluse (no mention of a bayonet). Officially the only SS-style uniform the forestry service did use was the Weisser Dienstrock für SS-Führer the SS white summer tunic. The forestry tunic is identical.

insignia and ranks were a crude mixture of forestry and SS.
Ranks mentioned in the Merkblatt FSK (1943) are the rank of Forstschütze, Rottenführer, Oberrottenführer, Scharführer, Oberscharführer, Truppführer and Obertruppführer. The collar patches largely resemble those of state forestry as they are green with metal- or embroidered oak leaves and have very little in common with SS rank patches.

"Herman Goring formed a forestry service to manage Luftwaffe forestry reserves close to air force installations and also his own hunting estates such as Carenhall and it is believed these rare sidearms were carried by the members of this very small elite forestry organisation"
Carinhall was guarded by the Luftwaffe (Regiment General Göring, Wache Carinhall). Photos show regular Luftwaffe uniforms. The woodlands surrounding Carinhall were taken care of by state foresters and members of the German hunting association. Indeed forestry personnel located at Carinhall, Rominten etc. were small numbers. But in uniform they were not “elite”. No indication in clothing regulations they were allowed the carry the “special” Waffen-Loesche knife.
I'm not saying they didn't wear the Waffen-Loesche knife, but there's also no evidence they did either.

[Wilhelm Saris]

In 1944 the Forstschutzkommando was renamed into Forstschutzkorps,
the name which already was intended to be used when it started in
1940 (explanation Landforstmeister Ernst Boden, who was noted to
be the "Gründer und Führer").

No solution yet about the knife!

For further explanation to post 143 (the last image is from early 1940):





Part of text from the Reichsministerialblatt der Forstverwaltung from
February 5, 1940 (nr. 6 pages 35 through 38) with the order from
the Reichsforstmeister from February 2, 1940 ( II 1160) with the
introduction for the Forstschutzkommando and its explanations about
how and what. With 3 a very brief description was given for the uniform
and the weapons to be used (see Seitengewehr, no other dagger or knife
is being mentioned):

[Tomaz]

All the regulations so far have been from 43/44, what about before this date. The bottom paragraph of post 143 mentions "Carinhall was guarded by the Luftwaffe (Regiment General Goring, Wache Carinhall)", the German word Wache means guard (Watch) could Wache be the W of the Ch.A.W ? Elite can only mean a select or selected group it might not mean they were anything special and may just be the dealers words.

Best Tomaz.

[Frogprince]

With the example Larry posted, beside his observations, TW says that his is 100% intact nickel plating. Not in hand I see here and there what looks to be some evidence of corrosion but no lifting of plating. My guess being that it’s re-polished carbon steel, whereas the one Ger has looks to be more original polishing that may be stainless? Fisher’s reference stating that Arthur Wingen used both carbon and stainless steel. In this age of technology a relatively simple non-intrusive test would be IMO the final arbitrator. Also in Fisher: 1972 - 180 employees, and 30 years later still in operation - so are there catalogs, and is anyone still around who may have some knowledge of these knives?

As for the Regiment General Göring - Wache Carinhall, when Göring was in charge of the Police there was a Landespolizeigruppe General Göring. That was redesignated in 1933, and was transferred into the Luftwaffe towards the end of 1935 as Regiment General Göring. The year that Göring was named to command it. In 1936 it was assigned to be Göring's bodyguards, and as antiaircraft protection for Hitler's Headquarters. 1938 some components separated to become paratroopers. All of which IMO reinforces what Wilhelm Saris about the Luftwaffe uniforms (as a military formation). And no doubt using Luftwaffe issued equipment. None of which adversely impacts the knives for a still not positively identified end user. Best Regards, Fred

[Tomaz]

Here's my last shot at it, Carinhall voluntary guard - Carinhall Anbieten Wache - Ch.A.W

Best Tomaz.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Here's my last shot at it, Carinhall voluntary guard - Carinhall Anbieten Wache - Ch.A.W
Best Tomaz.

Not the best guess I think!

[Tomaz]

Not the best guess I think!

What's yours.

[Wilhelm Saris]

What's yours.

I think my contribution was more then sufficient!!