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Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

Article about: Thank you historian, very correct text. !! About signature, I find in internet for compare. even when compare, no doubt about hitler signature.

  1. #1

    Default Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    Very good forum! I am historian from russia. Want give information on copy I made in militar архи́в in Москва́ 1980, with sigantur of Hitler. Sorry not good qualti.
    My son make scan for internet.

    Hitlers signatur for pistol 08.pdf // Uploadservice

    It is a short term gun license for a pistol 08 from 12 September 1919 !!!!
    на оборо́те (back?) is writing: Stadt Munchen uberstempelt Reichswehr.
    A dark blue печа́ть (seal?) on right top is glued not printed: Reichswehr Gruppen Kommando.
    Signet by Hitler and Hptm. Schonharl. ( with умля́ут two dots on o and a).
    for more information please write in forum.
    I read your opinion in forum.
    regards Jewgenij

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for Luger 08

    my reply to question in forum "discussion":
    My father says the copy was made 1980 in the “special military archive” in Москва́. Name and address today is: Российский государственный военный архив (РГВА)
    Хранилище быв. ЦХИДК
    ул. Выборгская, 3, корп.1
    125212, Москва, РОССИЯ
    In 1980 the archive file no. was: role: 501, file 930 app: 13-16 Gestapa Berlin-Munchen
    As the archive was united with the RGWA archive in 1999 the file no. might have changed.

    He do not know where the Luger 08 pistol mentioned in the paper is. It was not in the arciv.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for Luger 08

    picture for you:
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    It is small and hard to read. What else does it say about the pistol?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    document writes german. document says for pistol:

    Kurzzeit Waffenschein
    Dem Gerfeiten Adolf Hitler wird die Erlaubnis zum Tragen
    einer Pisole 08 / Erfurt 1918 Nr. 6901 q
    vom 12.9.1919 bis 13.9.1919 erteilt.

    me do not know about gun, think Erfurt not means the city Erfurt?
    But me think impotant more, than pistol, is date 12.9. 1919 as it was a special, historic day in history of DAP in munchen!! This day Hitler was at meeting of DAP at Мю́нхен beer hall.
    I wriite more history later.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    If possible, could you post the document in a better resolution?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    on September 12, 1919, the Army sent Hitler to the Sterneckerbrau, a Munich beer hall, to obtain intelligence about a group whose name led the Army to think--mistakenly--that it belonged to the political left. In fact, the ideology of the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers' Party) was just the opposite.
    Established in January 1919, this little-known party's leaders included Anton Drexler, a Munich railroad worker, who envisioned a volkisch German state resting on broad middle-class interests and purged of Jews and foreigners. At first, Hitler found the September 12 meeting boring and was about to leave, but when the discussion turned to the possibility of Bavarian separatism, Hitler intervened in strong disagreement. Impressed by Hitler's vigorous rebuttal, Drexler gave Hitler a copy of My Political Awakening, the DAP leader's political credo, and invited Hitler to return if he wanted to join. (holocaustcronicle)

    The Reichswehr Gruppen Kommando (1919 – 1921) was the military authority responsible for the civil order in Munich for about two years after the end of the Munich Soviet. Command, Major General Mohl.
    Couldn`t pinpoint a Hptm. Schonharl yet, working on it.
    I have never seen the seal of the Reichswehr Gruppen Kommando before. The eagle looks a bit wimpy to me?

  8. #8

    Thumbs up Re: Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    My father says he has used this poor copy as it is his only copy of total document. As copy technic in cccp was not good in 1980 he has made several abortive ? (failed?) attempts of copy. Some he has still. We cut out readable part of aborted copy and scan for you. Some part very good !
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    I identified the officer that has signed the gun permit as Hans Schönhärl.
    In 1919 he was serving at the Reichswehr Gruppen Kommando 4 in Munich where he was promoted to Hauptmann.
    Found his vita at:
    Generalleutnant Hans Schnhrl - Lexikon der Wehrmacht

  10. #10

    Default Re: Hitlers signatur for pistol 08

    So, even in the revolutionary year 1919, the German bureaucracy was working fine. They issued a gun permit to Hitler, to legalize his carrying a gun at the 12th of Sept. 1919.
    All the historical data of this document seem to be correct; the printed form of the “Waffenschein” (gun permit) was used in Bavaria/Germany these days. It was common practice to stamp “überstempeln” existing forms to adapt to the actual situation.
    Jewgenij even stated the exact file of the document at the РTВА archive in Moscow. I recheck in the net and in the history forum, the file no. is plausible.
    I compared Hitlers signature to others, dated 1918 to 1920, (found quite a few in the net). Although not being forensic handwriting expert nor graphologist the signature seems authentic.

    Leaves one question open: Where is the Luger Pistol 08, Erfurt 1918, no. 6901q?
    This Luger should be in a museum!

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