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WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

  1. #1
    drm2m
    ?

    Default WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    I will probably do this in a couple of posts as there is a lot of stuff.

    David

    Unit marked LP08 ( Artillery Luger) Model 1914
    Manufactured in 1917 by DWM. (Deutche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken)
    Sn. 6237m-this gun has one matching magazine.



    Both the pistol grip strap and the stock iron have Unit Markings 122.R.4.6
    122 FÜSILIER REGIMENT (4.WURTTEMBERG) (122.R.4.6.)

    Unit Marking is 122nd Fusiliers Regiment (Wurttemberg) 4th Kompagnie (Company) 6th Waffen (Weapon)

    HISTORY OF THE 122 FÜSILIER REGIMENT (4.WURTTEMBERG) AND THE LP08 MARKED TO IT (122.R.4.6.), DURING WORLD WAR I

    Historic- tradition information on the 122 Füsilier Regiment, from “Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee”. Listed are battles and dates as far back as Napoleon. This regiments honor name is “Kaiser Franz Josef von Österreich, König von Ungarn (4. Wurttembergisches) Nr. 122”. Its headquarters/base is Heilbronn (I & III) and Mergentheim(II) and it was founded in 1806.

    Note: The percentage of national contingents in the German Army during World War I is as follows:
    Prussia and the smaller states 78 percent
    Bavaria 11 percent
    Saxony 7 percent
    Wurttemberg 4 percent
    From “German WWI Identity Tags/Disks”, Peter Meinlschmidt, page 56.
    Lugers unit marked to Wurttemberg Regiments are rare.
    (Jan C. Still)
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture -dsc01687.jpg   -lp08-unit-markings.jpg  

    -272-kbs-left-side-pistol-all-accessories.jpg   -matching-magazine.jpg  

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    -200412301443_122jr18.jpg   -200412301725_122jr22-1-.jpg  

    -f17.jpg  

  2. #2
    drm2m
    ?

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    Continued from the previous post.

    The original holster was 1915 dated and was in pretty rough shape
    with what looks like a bullet hole through the shell of the holster that grazed the stock.. with a somewhat primitive holster repair.

    Other salient information regarding the other accessories is as follows.

    - Type 1 "Snail Drum Magazine" manufactured by "AEG"; Sn. 35718.
    - Cleaning rod;
    -Take down tool- with Imperial acceptance stamp ;
    - Stock- with stock iron Sn. 5411h..not the same Sn. as the gun, however, showing the same unit marking "122.R.4.6." , with the Crown/S Imperial acceptance stamp on the stock;
    - Holster- well worn- dated 1915- manufacturer's mark unclear;
    - Magazine Loader -manufacturer marked (Bing) - B/N , Crown/S Imperial acceptance stamp;
    - Dust cover for the "Snail Drum Magazine";
    -Two Magazines- one numbered with the gun, "6237m", the other, possibly, an Erfurt Armorer's replacement magazine.

    A PUZZLING PART OF THE STORY,... the significance, and possible explanation, for the same "Unit Markings" on the pistol and on the stock iron, even though their respective serial numbers were different.

    Jan Still's opinion;

    Top of stock iron, marked to this 1917 dated LP08, serial number 5411h. (Not matched to this Luger)

    Bottom of stock iron, matched by unit stamp 122.R.4.6.to the Luger. A possible explanation is that the stock and iron were battlefield pick ups that were pressed into service with this Luger.



    The Snail Drum Magazine or Trommel Magazine ( T.M –08) Serial # 35718 is a Type 1 (early model) manufactured by A.E.G

    The magazine loader is manufactured by Bing-Nurnberg manufacturer their hallmark is B over N.

    David
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture -dsc09036.jpg   -original-1915-dated-holster-perhaps-bullet-hole-grazed-stock.jpg  

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    -cropped-resized-right-side-pistol-snail-drum-loader-take-down-tool-scn4531.jpg   -cropped-resized-snail-drum-magazine-loader-take-down-tool.jpg  

    -aeg-type-1-tm08.jpg   -cropped-resized-markings-bn-magazine-loader.jpg  

    -copy-176-kbs-imperial-marking-tm08-feed-tube-dust-cover-dscn4515.jpg   -stock-remnants-original-leather.jpg  

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  3. #3
    drm2m
    ?

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    Continued from the previous post.

    Some of the boys with their artillery lugers with the "snail drum"
    magazine in place.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture -11.jpg  

  4. #4
    drm2m
    ?

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    Continued from the post above.

    Because the original 1915 dated holster was so "tired" I bought this 1916 dated holster from a guy in Australia.

    A LATER PURCHASED HOLSTER;
    1916 dated, manufactured by "Danziger Leder Industrie" (stamped marking), with "B.A.XV11" (ink marking), possibly for "Clothing Dept. of the XV11 Armee Corps, Danzig," all markings are on the inside flap.


    A collector’s story;

    When I bought this pistol it came with one magazine (as shown below)
    It was an Erfurt marked armourer’s replacement magazine.

    I researched back to the original owner who sold the gun to the fellow that I bought it from....and I found an original matching magazine. (6237m)

    The magazine and the gun had been separated for 24 years..as it had been put away for safety reasons because of young children.

    This happened around Christmas time Dec 20, 2004...it was a special Christmas present.

    Sometimes this stuff happens.

    David
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture -matching-magazine.jpg   -dsc01728.jpg  

    -268-kbs-lp08-pistol-1916-holster-dsc01685.jpg   -copy-best-holster-gun-mag-tool-plywood.jpg  


  5. #5

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    Hi David, great story!

    Cheers, Ade.

  6. #6

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    Wow.....super rig

  7. #7

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    Very nice and a super great post and story... Thanks BILL
    "As long as there are brave men and warriors the halls of Valhalla will never be silent or empty"

    In memory of my father William T. Grist December 26, 1920--September 10, 2009..
    901st. Ordnance H.A.M. North Africa, Italy, Southern France....ETO
    Also in memory of my mother Jane Kidd Grist Feb. 22, 1920-- September 27, 2009... WWll War bride May 1942...

  8. #8
    drm2m
    ?

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    Thanks Ade, Jason and Bill.

    The good luck in finding the missing magazine after all those years of separation from the gun...blew me away.

    It could have been any magazine....but this one was serial number matching to the pistol.

    When the gun was sold to the fellow I bought it from the magazine
    had been hidden away...and it was not found until years later.

    I am sure that the original seller was very surprised at my state of excitement when he gave me the missing mag.


    I have since learned..."never say it is impossible" when it comes to this collecting game.

    After I bought the gun Jan Still very kindly did a presentation of the rig on his forum back in Jan 2005.

    The stuff below is an extract from that presentation which gives a historical overview of the LP08 during WWI as well as some back ground on the unit history of this Luger.

    David

    -------------------------------------------------

    A directive dated August 11, 1917 ordered each infantry company on the Western Front to be armed with 10 Long P08's for attack purposes (Gortz, 1994). A similar directive ordered the arming of the Sturmbattilone with Long P08's with 6 extra magazines each (Schad, 1993). This special arming for assault troops would require most of the 1917 Long P08 production (Imperial Lugers, page xxv). These assault troops consisted predominately of infantry, machine gun, minenwerfer, and flame-thrower personnel.


    Of 870 reported unit marked Imperial Lugers 102 are LP08's and 78 of these are dated 1917. Of these 78, 52 are marked to infantry regiments, 6 to infantry regiment machine gun companies, 11 to infantry regiments, 8 to minenwerfer companies and 6 to various other units.

    Based on unit markings, LP08's were predominately issued to artillery units and infantry regiment machine gun companies during 1914. During 1915-1918 they were predominately issued to infantry regiment, infantry regiment machine gun companies and minenwerfer units.


    1917 LP08 DWM: predominantly infantry regiment (85 percent) Lugers were marked and issued. Some infantry regiment machine gun and minenwerfer Lugers were also marked and issued.
    The number of LP08's marked to infantry regiments during 1917, 64, is very large when compared to infantry regiment marked P08's . This very large number of infantry regiment marked LP08's is related to the issue of LP08's to assault troops on the Western Front during 1917.
    --------------------------------------------

    NOTE;
    The statistics have changed over the years as more unit marked pistols have been identified.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    During World War I the 122 Füsilier Regiment was part of the 26th, 105th, and the 243rd Infantry Divisions. The LP08 discussed here in probably went into service with the 122 Füsilier Regiment sometime during August-September-October 1917. It spent the rest of 1917 and 1918 battling as part of the 243 Infantry Division on the Western Front. The issuing Regiment controlled and distributed these Lugers to the troops. The history of these Lugers is the same as that of the Regiment that issued them and the troops that carried them.

    World War I battle history of the 243 Infantry Division during 1917 and 1918 on the Western Front. From “Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee”. The 122 Füsilier Regiment as part of the 243 Infantry Division battled at Hill 344 (near Verdun), at the Meuse, at Picardy, at the Somme, and at Le Cateau during 1917 and 1918.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture -200412301443_122jr18.jpg   -20041230143727_copy-20of-201900dwmradomhp45-20089.jpg  


  9. #9
    drm2m
    ?

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    As I was doing some research into the activities of the Regiment that my artillery Luger was involved with I learned that my wife's grandfather was killed in the immediate vicinity of where that Wurttemberg regiment was engaged around the same time.

    He was a Lt. Col. in the Canadian Infantry-and was awarded a D.S.O. with Bar,... MID(3)

    He went to France with a Canadian Second Division unit in September 1915, and was killed on August 8th 1918 in the advance on the Somme. (The first day of the Battle of Amiens) on the Cagny-Marcelcave Road and was buried at the cemetery at
    Longueau.

    He had survived the Battle of Vimy Ridge and the Battle of Passchendaele.


    The map below shows the Marcelcave Road where Jones met his fate on August 8th 1918,... and Longueau where he was buried.

    It also shows Morlancourt where the 4th Wurttemberg regiment was engaged on August 10th 1918.
    (Supposedly 400 were captured between August 10th and August 29th 1918)

    Morlancourt appears to be a continuation of the same road to Marcelcave where Jones was killed two days earlier.....perhaps less than 10 miles away.

    But this is another story.

    David
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture -map-3names.jpg   -text-cagny-marcelcave-road.jpg  

    -text-third-battle.jpg   -dsc03183-2-.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
    Balder
    ?

    Default Re: WWI “unit marked” LP08 (Artillery Luger) …with lots of other stuff.

    drm2m et al,

    Great story and a very interesting thread.

    I am new to this forum which I stumbled across while researching the regimental markings on my newly acquired artillery Luger (LP08). It is a DWM 1916, serial number 6169a with a matching magazine. It seems to have belonged to the same (122) regiment.

    Balder





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