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Nahkampfspange in Gold, 6 dot type

Article about: Hello Adrian, You have right, gold clasp are always hard nuts. They are very common so they will be always subject of debates. I added pic of reverse without flash. First pic on up was so br

  1. #1

    Post Nahkampfspange in Gold, 6 dot type

    Hello Guys,

    Please opinion about this close combat clasp in gold. Type 6 dot, magnetic backplate - unknown marked from Durante book. A little worn condition on obverse but still present a lot of gold finish. I have written COA from Carsten Baldes but Your knowledge is very welcome. Hope You like it

    Thanks in advance, regards Robert.
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    Last edited by Adrian; 12-02-2012 at 10:01 PM. Reason: Title changed to use German terminology.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Close combat clasp in Gold, 6 dot type

    Hi Robert,

    i am not a dealer and also not a guy,who writes coa`s.But in my opinion,the clasp itself it is a original six-dot clasp.A few things,are give mit not a good feeling about the gold grade.

    1. I have never seen a six-dot gold grade close combat clasp before.

    2.The backplate looks so,that it became a new paint.

    3.From this pics it looks so,that the backplate have also in part gold colour.

    So personaly for me a few red flags with the gold grade.For me a refinished clasp.

    Have you also doubts with the gold finish Robert?

    Regards
    Joachim
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Close combat clasp in Gold, 6 dot type

    Hi Joachim,

    Thank You very much for Your viewpoint.
    First of all, 6-dot clasp in gold grade exist and this is a fact. I added for example another one in worst condition.
    About refinishing-its always hard nut! In this case blackened back plate from brass IMO can be made in war time. I made acetone test and there isn't any reaction for sure! Its a very good sign that we know. This type of back plate I saw on Baldes update in past. Also we know that some part of clasps were refinished in war time by producers. I think its an original Nahkampfspange in gold.

    Regards, Robert
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  5. #4

    Post Re: Close combat clasp in Gold, 6 dot type

    I added more pics. All opinions welcome
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  6. #5

    Default Re: Close combat clasp in Gold, 6 dot type

    For me it has the right amount of natural wear - if refinished then it was done a LONG time ago!
    Cheers, Dan
    " When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble, give a whistle "

  7. #6

    Post Re: Close combat clasp in Gold, 6 dot type

    Quote by Danmark View Post
    For me it has the right amount of natural wear - if refinished then it was done a LONG time ago!
    Cheers, Dan
    Thank You very much Dan for Your analysis! I had also another clasps in my collection (with silver and bronze grade) and they had the same typical look of the wear on the obverse. Clearly a worn badge that has seen some action.
    Great observation Dan

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: Nahkampfspange in Gold, 6 dot type

    Gold clasps will always attract a certain amount of close scrutiny because of the rarity of these pieces and considering the high value of them it's a good thing. No-one wants to be caught out by one.

    I can't add anything regarding the piece as they are not my collecting field and my knowledge is very limited.

    I would mention a concern over the finish too. The obverse looks ok but the reverse is odd in terms of the wear. There isn't any except for the extreme edges, the whole of the reverse is unblemished. You would think that if the award had this much wear to the front, there would alos be a bit more on the back but there isn't, no chips, scratches or anything.

    On the plus side, there doesn't appear to be another colour underneath it so it might stand a chance.

    Goor photos though, thank you for posting.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Close combat clasp in Gold, 6 dot type

    Quote by Kradmelder View Post
    Hi Robert,

    i am not a dealer and also not a guy,who writes coa`s.But in my opinion,the clasp itself it is a original six-dot clasp.A few things,are give mit not a good feeling about the gold grade.

    1. I have never seen a six-dot gold grade close combat clasp before.

    2.The backplate looks so,that it became a new paint.

    3.From this pics it looks so,that the backplate have also in part gold colour.

    So personaly for me a few red flags with the gold grade.For me a refinished clasp.

    Have you also doubts with the gold finish Robert?

    Regards
    Joachim
    I agree entirely with you Joachim. The backplate on the '6 dot' type of clasp is impossible to remove without damaging the piece. Therefore, if it was re gilded in a correct manner (not painted), the finish would also adhere to the backplate, hence the reason it has been repainted, which imo it has. The signs of gilding pointed out by Joachim on the backplate are unequivocal, but they should not or would not be there if the clasp were unmessed with, as the two pieces are produced and finished separately. This would steer me away from this clasp, I would wait for another that has no issues with it, as this one does, I really don't like the crude looking finish on the backplate.

    But reading Robert F's posts, he seems convinced it's a good 'un no matter what's said, so opinions are unlikely to sway him too much, which is his perogative.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #9

    Post Re: Nahkampfspange in Gold, 6 dot type

    Hello Ned,

    All opinions are welcome! Forum is the place where people write all toughs, some people like sth, some people have objection.

    Blackened back plate is fact, but when was made, when acetone test doesn't work. Do You know another type of experience to say that it was blackened nowadays? I'm sure no. There are around claps like this one from post. Take a look on Weitze or Baldes sites, there are sometimes clasp with this type of back plate, and they obtained as original and sold to collectors with warranty of authenticity. Weitze and Baldes aren't dealers from cloud I have coa with warranty of repurchase on this clasp and I don't worry, but I'm sure that here are collectors who like this type of clasp too.
    I added another clasps with this type of backplate (not magnetic in this case, as we know magnetics clasp are also AGMuK and FLL clasps) I cut area with dealers description.
    Enjoy pics


    Quote by big ned View Post
    I agree entirely with you Joachim. The backplate on the '6 dot' type of clasp is impossible to remove without damaging the piece. Therefore, if it was re gilded in a correct manner (not painted), the finish would also adhere to the backplate, hence the reason it has been repainted, which imo it has. The signs of gilding pointed out by Joachim on the backplate are unequivocal, but they should not or would not be there if the clasp were unmessed with, as the two pieces are produced and finished separately. This would steer me away from this clasp, I would wait for another that has no issues with it, as this one does, I really don't like the crude looking finish on the backplate.

    But reading Robert F's posts, he seems convinced it's a good 'un no matter what's said, so opinions are unlikely to sway him too much, which is his perogative.

    Regards, Ned.
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  11. #10

    Default Re: Nahkampfspange in Gold, 6 dot type

    Am thinking your last paragraph about says it all, Ned.....
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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