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Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

Article about: a different tho sort of related world, and very interesting. it's good that folks are following the detritus of the nva. actually, some of this material is quite good-looking; tho a good dea

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    a different tho sort of related world, and very interesting. it's good that folks are following the detritus of the nva. actually, some of this material is quite good-looking; tho a good deal I've seen has a cheapness rarely found in IIId reich equivalents.

    fb - is the bw "affejacke" the waist-length one, worn with the saddle-form peaked caps that persisted for some years after 1945?

    seems to me some of the early stuff worn by the bw and bgs in the '50s and '60s was pretty snazzy, before giving way to pretty awful costumes seen today... (sort of the aesthetic equal of the current usaf "bus driver" or "waiter" tunic - a pocketless abomination. and don't get me started on the stupid cap device! it was cribbed from that sci-fi epic, "starship troopers."




    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Thanks. I do own several books in German on all of this, and I shall look for you, if you are interested. There was a good east German book published at the turn of the decade after 1989, and there is now a book solely on caps also in German, but I cannot find it in the labyrinth here. Motorbuch Verlag also has an interesting book on uniforms, too, of more recent vintage. There is also an excellent new work on the "Felikse" that is, the members of the Wachregiment of the MfS.

    Early Bundeswehr uniforms are interesting, too, in fact, and there is an excellent new book out on them, as well.

    I once had a chance to buy the very first pattern Bw general's uniform, i.e. the Affenjacke of the years 1955-6, and failed to do so. It would be quite rare in today's world, but that was in 1974 when my mind was only on field grey and black things.

    Thanks and happy head wear

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    The Affenjacke is being worn in this image. The first Bw uniform for the air and land services was a double breasted short jacket in a dark grey. Whoops. I thought this was another picture. This is the induction of the first soldiers in November 1955.

    I shall look for some images and post them later, since you are interested.
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    damit, basta.

  4. #23

    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    Here is what I meant.....
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    damit, basta.

  5. #24

    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    The Bundesgrenzschutz came into existence in 1952 and wore a kind of modified police style uniform, with the old helmet.

    West Germany was to have joined a so called European Defense Community planned in the years 1950-1954, which would have had a kind of Anglo Saxon battle dress uniform common to all western European nations with minimum national distinctions. This organization was still born in the summer of 1954, and then the West Germans designed the grey uniform you see above that was an object of ridicule upon its introduction and replaced in 1957 with the army and Luftwaffe uniforms of the late 1950s, i.e. a light grey open jacket with four patch pockets and Waffenfarbe on the old pattern. The Bundesmarine had kept a normal naval uniform. The NVA uniform was a deliberate attempt to seize on the popular displeasure in the FRG to the Affenjacke with the re introduction of field grey, etc. Those Wehrmacht officers who had gone over to the Red Army in the wake of Stalingrad had been allowed to keep their field grey uniforms minus the NS badges, of course, so there was a precedent of a kind.

    I will leave the field uniforms to others. I shall also cite later the relevant titles of interest in German that are very enlightening on what is also an important aspect of our interest.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    yipes - these ones look a bit like italian bellhops... could use a good tailor! der herr wolters, z.b.?)


    thanks for posting fb.





    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Here is what I meant.....

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    bowing deeply your direction, good sir, for the explication. excellent poster, too. cheers.



    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    The Bundesgrenzschutz came into existence in 1952 and wore a kind of modified police style uniform, with the old helmet.

    West Germany was to have joined a so called European Defense Community planned in the years 1950-1954, which would have had a kind of Anglo Saxon battle dress uniform common to all western European nations with minimum national distinctions. This organization was still born in the summer of 1954, and then the West Germans designed the grey uniform you see above that was an object of ridicule upon its introduction and replaced in 1957 with the army and Luftwaffe uniforms of the late 1950s, i.e. a light grey open jacket with four patch pockets and Waffenfarbe on the old pattern. The Bundesmarine had kept a normal naval uniform. The NVA uniform was a deliberate attempt to seize on the popular displeasure in the FRG to the Affenjacke with the re introduction of field grey, etc. Those Wehrmacht officers who had gone over to the Red Army in the wake of Stalingrad had been allowed to keep their field grey uniforms minus the NS badges, of course, so there was a precedent of a kind.

    I will leave the field uniforms to others. I shall also cite later the relevant titles of interest in German that are very enlightening on what is also an important aspect of our interest.

  8. #27

    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    Quote by vady View Post
    yipes - these ones look a bit like italian bellhops... could use a good tailor! der herr wolters, z.b.?)


    thanks for posting fb.

    The grey Affenjacke was unpopular, but it was a thing of the early 1950s.
    You have to realize that the field grey 1933 uniform that one associates with the Wehrmacht and what not was not exactly an organic extension of say the traditional blue Prussian uniform worn until the turn of the century. Military fashion changes, and, in fact, US uniform in the interwar period was a model for the Reichswehr, as Mollo points out. As he also points out, the SA/SS uniform borrowed as much from the British as not, and the same is also true of the DLV/Luftwaffe uniform. Even the black Pz beret of 1934 had a British prototype, in fact. But is also true that Germans made nice uniforms all the same.

    The travails of the USAF with its uniform recently are quite odd. The tragedy of modern US dress uniforms is the wholesale over presence of plastic fibers and the attendant collapse of self esteem that goes with it, to say nothing of the discomfort it causes.


    This book here is excellent on the Bw.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  9. #28

    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    Thanks for yours. I like this poster, also, since we are on the subject. The Affenjacke is in wear too and shows the similarity to other NATO forces, as was the intent of its design at the time.
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    damit, basta.

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    more colorful paper ephemera. fb. cheers for the fine additions to this slightly off-lead thread.....


    >The travails of the USAF with its uniform recently are quite odd. The tragedy of modern US dress uniforms is the wholesale over presence of plastic fibers and the attendant collapse of self esteem that goes with it, to say nothing of the discomfort it causes.<

    I think the usmc alone still uses the styles, color and woolens - foetid or not - of the 2nd world war. as to plastic fibers, yes well the wool/poly blend I endured while in the af was bad enough; prob'ly the wool now is less, the plastic more... more's the pity say I!







    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Thanks for yours. I like this poster, also, since we are on the subject. The Affenjacke is in wear too and shows the similarity to other NATO forces, as was the intent of its design at the time.

  11. #30

    Default Re: Grey visor cap Real or Fake?

    I admit such is off the topic, but for those of us with an association to the US armed forces, the USMC has better uniforms, surely. My concern is more the human beings in the uniforms and their minds versus their appearance, but plastic clothes are dreadful at any time.

    I think there is a program in the USN to have Brooks Brothers make a real, woolen set of dress blues (black...) kit, but such is the exception. It is very costly.

    I am also an opponent of the proliferation of battle dress uniform as the order of dress of all kinds. This break down of decorum happened while I was with USAREUR in the early 1980s with the advent of BDUs of said era, and it was not an improvement in soldierly bearing.

    In the 1970s, when the green mottled shirt was introduced for Class A and Class B US Army uniform, we argued for a return to pinks and greens with the Sam Browne belt, but the Army has recently revived the blue uniform for general wear, a return to the era prior to the 20th century.

    I am also shocked at the things my young associates do their berets to shrink them, batter them, shave them, and otherwise render the appearance of same that of a veteran.

    At least the berets appear to be woolen.
    damit, basta.

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