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Did the stahlhelm and the sa have the same rank system?

Article about: Hello all. I was wondering if the SA and the Stahlhelm shared a similar rank system. Thanks

  1. #1

    Default Did the stahlhelm and the sa have the same rank system?

    Hello all. I was wondering if the SA and the Stahlhelm shared a similar rank system. Thanks

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  3. #2

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    The rank insignia was completely different.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  4. #3

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    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    The rank insignia was completely different.
    I've looked for their rank structure online but I can't find it. I just acquired two Stahlhelm/SA photo's circa 1934.

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  5. #4

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    Quote by yarmouth View Post
    I've looked for their rank structure online but I can't find it. I just acquired two Stahlhelm/SA photo's circa 1934.
    Both men are ranked Wehrmann or Oberwehrmann (these two lowest ranks shared the same collar patches; they were distinguished by the wear of one or two sleeve chevrons, respectively).

    Ranks for the Stahlhelmbund were:

    • Wehrmann
    • Oberwehrmann
    • Stabswehrmann
    • Gruppenführer
    • Feldmeister
    • Oberfeldmeister
    • Zugführer
    • Oberzugführer
    • Kompanieführer
    • Bataillonsführer
    • Stabsführer
    • Regimentsführer
    • Brigadeführer
    • Divisionsführer
    • Obergruppenführer
    • Bundeshauptmann
    • Bundesführer


    Stahlhelm rank insignia as such were totally different from the SA, but there was a short transitional period after the former Wehrstahlhelm (age groups 18 - 35) was absorbed by the SA in October 1933 during which its members continued to wear Stahlhelm uniforms with full SA insignia (shoulder boards, collar patches and all) before adopting SA uniforms.

    Also, if I recal correctly, there were some adaptions to the configuration of the elements on the Stahlhelm collar patches for those Stahlhelm members who formed the SA-Reserve I (age groups 36 - 45), but I have no details on that. Perhaps if Wim Saris reads this, he can elaborate on that, as he is highly knowledgable on the regalia of the Stahlhelm. (Speaking of which: Stahlhelm headgear is covered in detail in Vol. 2 of the "Headgear of Hitler's Germany" series, which also has many good period photographs.)

    Finally, this could be of help for you:

    Awards & Decorations of the World • View topic - Die Uniformen und Abzeichen von SA und Stahlhelmbund etcetc

    (Registration/login required. This is a scan of a 1933 booklet containing uniform/insignia charts for various political organizations including 8 charts for the Stahlhelmbund.)

  6. #5

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    Wow. That was a fantastic reply. Thank you very much! I hope I'm not being a bother with so many questions on this forum. I just find this topic amazing. I'm Canadian and my grandmother was German/American and told me about her as a child with her parents witnessing the Hindenburg going up in flames in New Jersey in the 30's. I was in Germany once back in 1992 and had a wonderful time. The people of Germany are fantastic and I count myself very fortunate for my German ancestry. I am also Irish/English and have been to both of those countries and had a wonderful time.

  7. #6

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    Had not seen this thread. Nice photos with the about 1932 ranking-system, according an order from the Bundesführung des Stahlhelm in Berlin (as Bk/IIa/1625/32).

    One should note that when the Stahlhelm was absorbed within the SA there were various orders about the wearing of the Stahlhelm-uniform with SA adaptions.
    One such order was Befehl from August 8, 1933 (which was specifically for drivers, but what the heck!). Page 3 from the order mentions the field-grey Stahlhelm-uniform,
    to be worn with SA armband and colar-patches and ranking-system as to according the SA-Bekleidungsvorschrift. So, Stahlhelm did wear the colored collar-patches
    as for the SA.
    In volume 2 from the mentioned "Headgear of Hitler's Germany" the page 226 shows such a guy wearing SA collar-patches. I have others laying around. Two I have enclosed here:
    note the SA piping, shoulder-strap and collar-patches with indications.

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    One should note that SA collar-patches were not worn with the new Stahlhelm-uniform, as introduced in June 1934: Die Bundestracht des NS. Deutschen Frontkämpfer-Bundes (Stahlhelm)
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  8. #7

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    I talked with a Dutch guy, who also has a great interest in the
    Stahlhelm-organization. I also told before at this forum I was once
    planning a book about the subject with all "ins and outs"! This plan
    was also the idea from the Dutch guy. We will meet and sit down
    and maybe the plan can be worked out, but it is just in its earliest
    stage. Who knows what comes out of it? Maybe I can assist him
    and if so, surely some WRF-members can assist also with their
    Stahlhelm-items.

    It is not an easy subject to cover and if there will come a sort of
    agreement, it will anyway take some years to work out the plans.
    The well-known David Littlejohn also once had this plan, but it
    failed for many reasons!

    I think "Old Franz" would be pleased!!


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    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  9. #8

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    That would be fantastic. I'd buy that book for sure!

  10. #9

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    I will keep you guys informed whatever our decision is,
    but as said whenever I will go through with it and we do
    agree, the Dutch guy must overthink the plan well and
    he will have a long way to go!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  11. #10

    Default

    Hopefully this will help.

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