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Feuerschutzpolizei collar tab variations

Article about: Hi everyone, I've been looking for a fire police tunic for a while now. While doing some research I discovered that there seem to be 2 different styles of collar tabs. What is the difference

  1. #1

    Default Feuerschutzpolizei collar tab variations

    Hi everyone,
    I've been looking for a fire police tunic for a while now. While doing some research I discovered that there seem to be 2 different styles of collar tabs. What is the difference? I have never seen the solid red style until now.
    Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2

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    any ideas?

  4. #3

  5. #4

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    Please have patience and wait for an answer from someone familiar with this insignia. Members do not sit by the computer waiting to answer every question posed. I feel that I know but do not have any conclusive back up so I will await a reply from someone who studies this area.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  6. #5

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    Thanks Bob.

  7. #6

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    I will give you my thoughts and will be happy to be corrected if I am wrong. I believe the blank tabs are prewar and the the style similar to Heer tabs are wartime when most organizations modified their uniforms to have a more military appearance.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  8. #7

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    The "blank" crimson collar patches with black piping are not for the Feuerschutzpolizei [Fire Protection Police], but for the Freiwillige Feuerwehr [Volunteer Fire Brigade] and the Pflichtfeuerwehr [Compulsory Fire Brigade].

    Slightly simplified, it breaks down like this:

    In the Freiwillige Feuerwehr, these patches were worn by the three lowest ranks of Feuerwehrmann, Oberfeuerwehrmann and Löschmeister from 1936 to 1939.*) In 1939/1940, Feuerwehr rank structure, -designations and -insignia were revised, and the lowest ranks started wearing collar patches with woven Litzen, too. At the same time, the color of the shoulder board cords changed from carmine to black.

    Personnel of the Pflichtfeuerwehren wore the "blank" collar patches up to the end of the war.

    As for the three pictures seen above:

    The Graz tunic has regulation insignia for an Oberfeuerwehrmann ca. 1938/1939.

    The Niefern tunic has transitional insignia with older model shoulder boards for a Feuerwehrmann, but collar patches which the lowest ranks officially would not have worn at the time these boards were worn. They were worn by all personnel below officer rank (=the ranks from Anwärter through Obertruppführer) from 1939/1940.

    The uniform plate by the artist Herbert Knötel shows (left) a Hauptbrandmeister in service dress and (right) a Löschmeister in firefighting dress.


    *) At the same time, junior leaders (Brandmeister through Oberbrandmeister) wore collar patches with woven "enlisted-style" Litzen and officer ranks above that (Hauptbrandmeister through Landesfeuerwehrführer) wore collar patches with embroidered "officer-style" Litzen Candidates (Anwärter) wore no collar patches at all.

  9. #8

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    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    The "blank" crimson collar patches with black piping are not for the Feuerschutzpolizei [Fire Protection Police], but for the Freiwillige Feuerwehr [Volunteer Fire Brigade] and the Pflichtfeuerwehr [Compulsory Fire Brigade].

    Slightly simplified, it breaks down like this:

    In the Freiwillige Feuerwehr, these patches were worn by the three lowest ranks of Feuerwehrmann, Oberfeuerwehrmann and Löschmeister from 1936 to 1939.*) In 1939/1940, Feuerwehr rank structure, -designations and -insignia were revised, and the lowest ranks started wearing collar patches with woven Litzen, too. At the same time, the color of the shoulder board cords changed from carmine to black.

    Personnel of the Pflichtfeuerwehren wore the "blank" collar patches up to the end of the war.

    As for the three pictures seen above:

    The Graz tunic has regulation insignia for an Oberfeuerwehrmann ca. 1938/1939.

    The Niefern tunic has transitional insignia with older model shoulder boards for a Feuerwehrmann, but collar patches which the lowest ranks officially would not have worn at the time these boards were worn. They were worn by all personnel below officer rank (=the ranks from Anwärter through Obertruppführer) from 1939/1940.

    The uniform plate by the artist Herbert Knötel shows (left) a Hauptbrandmeister in service dress and (right) a Löschmeister in firefighting dress.


    *) At the same time, junior leaders (Brandmeister through Oberbrandmeister) wore collar patches with woven "enlisted-style" Litzen and officer ranks above that (Hauptbrandmeister through Landesfeuerwehrführer) wore collar patches with embroidered "officer-style" Litzen Candidates (Anwärter) wore no collar patches at all.
    Thank you for clearing things up HPL. This is really valuable information.

  10. #9

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    One more question HPL. Would men belonging to the Freiwillige Feuerwehr or Pflichtfeuerwehr wear Feuerschutzpolizei visors, or were these men not issued any as they were firemen and not doubly policemen?
    Thanks.

  11. #10

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    Quote by Fallschirmjager1941 View Post
    One more question HPL. Would men belonging to the Freiwillige Feuerwehr or Pflichtfeuerwehr wear Feuerschutzpolizei visors, or were these men not issued any as they were firemen and not doubly policemen?
    If you mean green visor caps: They were worn by the Feuerschutzpolizei, whereas blue visors were worn by the Feuerwehren. However, police eagle cap badges were worn by both services due to the fire brigades' status as a technical auxiliary police:

    From 1936 to 1938, the Berufsfeuerwehren [Professional Fire Brigades] and the Freiwillige Feuerwehren [Volunteer Fire Brigades] had the status of a Polizeiexekutive besonderer Art [roughly "Police executive force of a special status"] and were collectively referred to as Feuerlöschpolizei [Firefighting Police]. Thus, they started wearing police eagle cap badges in 1936.

    In 1939, the Feuerschutzpolizei [Fire Protection Police] was formed from the Berufsfeuerwehren, which ceased to exist as such. [Some Berufsfeuerwehren of smaller cities were not taken into the FSP, but re-designated/re-organized into Freiwillige Feuerwehren]. The Feuerschutzpolizei was a specialized, but regular branch of the Order Police (and thus wore the green police uniform).

    The Freiwillige Feuerwehr merely had the status of a Technische Hilfspolizei [Technical Auxiliary Police] under the supervision of the Hauptamt Ordnungspolizei. [Main Office of the Order Police] and retained the blue uniform.
    The other two services with the status of a Technische Hilfspolizei were the Technische Nothilfe (since 1936) and the Luftschutzpolizei (since 1942).

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