Haupttruppführer SA insignias

[notton]

Hello Gentlemen ,

I have some questions about these SA insignias . It is an Haupttruppführer rank tab accompanied with an enlisted rank shoulder strap . Is it possible ? The background of the tab with metal device numeral is made of the same material than the shoulder strap although the back material of the rank tab is a different material as wool when the others look like more velvet .

Also, what does mean the piping around the collar tabs . Senior officer ? After a search the color of the tabs could be from saxony or Nordsee ?

The color of the pips is gold does it mean something ?

Does the piping around the collar should be White and red as the shoulder board and the piping of the tabs ?

and last question :Perhaps these insignias are fake and I apologize for taking your time reading the thread for nothing .

Thank You in advance if you can answer to all of these .

[douglas2496]

Hello, I have recently started researching and collecting SA insignia and others such as Bob Coleman hopefully will give you better information than I can, but I thought I would make a start. Its a complicated subject and there is plenty of ways to get it wrong!

In my opinion they are certainly genuine. The rank is Haupttruppfuhrer (a senior NCO rank) and the board and collar patches do indeed go together. Different SA groups wore either gold or silver buttons, in this case gold and the pip matches that which is fine. The coloured piping is for junior ranks, senior SA men wore gold or silver piping. The piping colour indicates the geographical group,- I have consulted a book about the piping colour and it looks like it could be either Thuringen area (who wore red and white piping with Apple green boards) or Osterreich who wore red and white piping with steel green boards. Hopefully someone more expert than me can confirm, but I hope thats some help.

Doug

[HPL2008]

The combination of "steel green" patches with red-and-white piping was for Gruppe Österreich ca. 1933.

Gruppe Nordsee also had "steel green" patches, but with black-and-white piping. Gruppe Thüringen had "apple green" patches with red-and-white piping. Colors can be deceiving when viewed through digital photography and a monitor, but the color looks far too dark to me to be Thüringen's "apple green" shade.

However, Österreich had silver-colored insignia and buttons.

I can't comment on originality, but surely Bob Coleman will be able to help you.

[notton]

Thank you Gentlemen for the prompt answer it helps me a lot to understand better how SA insignias work . i have to admit that I am little lost in the Kafkaest SA insignias . I admire your knowledge in German history !
Thank you

[BOB COLEMAN]

The insignia appears to be period original. It is very odd to see metal numerals instead of white stitched unit numbers. This may be due to the early construction of the tabs. SA insignia is a very complicated field.

[notton]

Thank You sir . I want to rebuild a SA shirt . What collar piping will match the insignias? White / red piping ? The shirt should have gold buttons or silver buttons will work ?
Thank you

[BOB COLEMAN]

Thank You sir . I want to rebuild a SA shirt . What collar piping will match the insignias? White / red piping ? The shirt should have gold buttons or silver buttons will work ?
Thank you

Finding proper collar piping for an SA brown shirt is near impossible-especially red and white. On closer examination of your pictures, the shoulder board button appears to be gold while the rank pips appear to be silver. If this is the case, the shoulder strap should have a silver button and is likely a post war replacement. It would be far easier to restore a stripped shirt to the last pattern 1939 insignia which deleted collar piping entirely on both the collar and tabs. The 1939 pattern tabs would not have to match the shoulder straps as the tabs are unpiped and the boards were changed to branch of SA shoulder straps from matching the collar tab Gruppe color.

[notton]

Thank You sir, but my god it is so complicated may be I give up ... Thank you again , and have a good day Sir .