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Judge Robe original or fake??

Article about: Hi, The Garment looks to me to be of very high quality and original. The eagle may or may not belong on the Garment and whilst I totally agree with HPL, I would highly recommend that you do

  1. #1

    Default Judge Robe original or fake??

    Hello, I'd appreciate an opinion about this Judge Robe, not easy to find one these days. There's a name sewn below the private marker. ¨Letz¨
    Thanks for your time, and have a nice weekend!

    George

    ¨I'll try to get better pictures¨
    Attached Images Attached Images       

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  3. #2

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    *
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #3

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    Hello David, thanks for your answer. There's a proverb that says¨An image is better than 1000 words¨ hehe I understand a post robe...

    - - ------- - -

    Hello David, thanks for your answer. There's a proverb that says¨An image is better than 1000 words¨ hehe I understand a post robe...

  5. #4

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    You could ask them since when they made these robes, then you know for sure.
    For me it looks a robe which was indeed made by them, but it is possible someone
    did sew on later the national eagle emblem. This F.W.Julius Assmann-concern did
    anyway exist since the early 1900's and already in those days manufactured for
    churches (Paramente und Kirchenbedarf).

    Likewise robes were made during the Third Reich. Maybe Assmann did not sew on
    the national eagle emblem, maybe they did:

    F. W. Jul. Assmann - Evangelischer Kirchenbedarf, Pfarrer ...

    Here an article about such robes in a tailor's magazine from 1936:

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    Further shown a plate with various robe forms fom 1933.

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    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  6. #5

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    Shouldn't a non-military eagles head face the other way????
    " When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble, give a whistle "

  7. #6

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    Here drawings from the 1936 regulation, which clearly shows the stand for the eagle's head!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is much written about eagles, but often the conclusions are and were wrong, while
    one has not ever seen an official regulation.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  8. #7

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    Wim Saris' idea of contacting the Assmann company for more information on the robe is certainly worthwhile. Still, it is pretty safe to say that it is a post-war model to which the eagle has been added.

    Have a look at Assmann's homepage:

    F. W. Jul. Assmann - Evangelischer Kirchenbedarf, Pfarrer- und Juristenamtsbekleidung (Talare, Roben)

    Now go to "Chronik" / "Damals" for a breakdown of the company's history.

    It tells us that the company was founded in 1890 and up until after the end of WW2 exclusively manufactured items for priests and churches.

    It was only in 1946 that they broadened their product range to include robes for jurists and university professors.

  9. #8

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    Thanks HPL2008. I had not found since when robes were made by this Assman-concern.
    Maybe it is correct they didn't make them during the Third Reich, but my experiences tell me otherwise.

    In the seventies I had contacted many concerns in the Lüdenscheid-area. I still do own many of these letters.
    Most concerns denied they ever had made buckles for any of the organizations from the Third Reich period.
    It was known to me however they produced at least some.

    So, it is possible this part of the Assmann-history is supressed. What concern does like it to get linked to the
    hated justice-system of the TR?

    Here is a part from such a letter from November 1975. I do own a catalogue from the concern from 1937
    in which at least 25 buckles are being offered, including Reichsnährstand, forestry, justice, penal etc. I have
    observed many of their buckles in later years from collections. So, their answer to my letter was a pure lie.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Other concerns answered me in not so friendly ways. From all received answers 40% even denied ever
    having produced buckles during the III.Reich-period.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  10. #9

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    Here is a part from such a letter from November 1975. I do own a catalogue from the concern from 1937
    in which at least 25 buckles are being offered, including Reichsnährstand, forestry, justice, penal etc. I have
    observed many of their buckles in later years from collections. So, their answer to my letter was a pure lie.
    Thanks for sharing this interesting document, Wim!

    One could argue that they carefully fiddled with their semantics to avoid telling a straight lie. Note how they make the statement that during the period their "focus lay on badges and decorations" while they "hardly manufactured any belt buckles during the period". (Except for the 25 or so types offered in their catalogue, that is.)

  11. #10

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    Okay, for me their answer was not a problem. But before putting them my answers
    I knew they had produced masses of buckles, I owned some with their typical marking
    It was one of the mayor concerns for such fittings in Lüdenscheid. Their catalogue from
    1937 had over 100 pages. Just 17 did show orders and decorations and decoration parts
    as back-plates.
    Practically all concerns I wrote directed me to the concerns of Assmann, Overhoff, Steinhauer
    & Lück, Deumer and Linden.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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