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metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

Article about: Hello all, Looks to at one time have had four reverse pins on it. Any thoughts on this one? It has an RZM logo on the reverse, but I may be blind and cannot see a number with a M1 prefix any

  1. #1

    Default metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    Hello all,

    Looks to at one time have had four reverse pins on it. Any thoughts on this one? It has an RZM logo on the reverse, but I may be blind and cannot see a number with a M1 prefix anywhere.

    William Kramer
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked   metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked  

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked   metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked  

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked   metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked  

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked   metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked  


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  3. #2

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    Hey William very interesting piece here. I found a discussion on these badges on the waf, it was suggested that they were a Delta made item from the 70's? But personally I like the look of it. It appears to be die struck, and has lovely detail, I also like the pin shape and attachment method it was used on other cap badges of the period, like unpunched SS TK as I recently discovered in a discussion. I also found one for sale or was sold on veterans foot locker site which I believe to be a trustworthy dealer. I will include links to both, to kick things off. Best regards.

    Brian

    2 Diplomatic Cap Eagles. Original? - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM markedmetal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    VFL offering and link.

    VeteransFootlocker.com*Catalog

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    Very similar to this prong and attachment configuration. The single RZM mark minus the makers code with M1 prefix could be an indication these were made mid 34 early 35?
    Last edited by bsiwula1; 10-16-2017 at 04:07 PM.

  4. #3

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    These were sold by Delta International in the late 60's--early '70's and they were priced cheap. I bought several at the time. They sold them as originals, but I have heard different opinions. The eagle did have substantial pins mounted on the reverse.
    "If I wished to punish a province, I would have it governed by philosophers." Frederick the Great

  5. #4

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    Hello William,
    I'm not too sure if it was just an anomaly of some particular makers not bothering to add their code or if it's as Brian says they were early pieces.
    Here is an oakleaf with just the RZM mark and similar prongs as your example display:

    Cheers
    Doug

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM markedmetal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM markedmetal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked
    Last edited by Saladin; 10-16-2017 at 07:13 PM.

  6. #5

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    Quote by Nacogdochian View Post
    These were sold by Delta International in the late 60's--early '70's and they were priced cheap. I bought several at the time. They sold them as originals, but I have heard different opinions. The eagle did have substantial pins mounted on the reverse.
    Thanks well that confirms the Delta attribute. I know Delta is widely known for selling fake/fantasy designed pieces, but did they ever sell period leftover stock, horde find items if you will? Or is that just grabbing at straws. I guess to be conclusive a period photo of one in wear or one on an unmolested cap with the badge intact would be conclusive. I'm certain Wim would know or have an image, if one did exist from his headgear of Hitler's Germany book series. I ll keep digging as time permits. But I still kind of like it's odds as it doesn't scream outright fake. You can scrutinize the RZM symbol as not being clear or having the dash through the Z but that s inconclusive imo. I would still half to see proof though before being convinced. Hopefully we can put this piece in the good or bad column definitively one way or the other. William how did you acquire it? I know you are a highly intelligent and reputable person so that would go along way with me. Best regards.

    Brian

  7. #6

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    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    Bsiwula1......In spite of the poor quality photo, odd camera angle and dirty backside of this eagle, I hazard to hypothesize that this eagle was made by the same manufacturer, even on the same tooling as that twin eagle posted on Wehrmacht-Awards.

    The obverse presents itself well because someone invested in quality tooling showing much experience in casting, not stamping.

    Amortization would require either high market prices or substantial production runs.

    NACOGDOCHIAN .......Do you still have one of these DELTA eagles ? ? ?

    The reverse might become a "FINGERPRINT" to associate with Delta International, in the tradition of the MOUSTACHE Deschler skull or the JAY LENO totenkopf button.

  8. #7

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    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM markedmetal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM markedmetal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    Doug here are the comparitive images of Williams version the one from WAF and the closeup of the version from veterans foot lockers

  9. #8

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    Bsiwula1.....my compliments on the juxtaposition. I would prefer to confine the discussion to the upper two images, the OP versus WAF RZM close-ups.

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    However, I believe I passed today's Senior Citizen Memory Test......while identical in humor it brings to mind this posting by REAL STEAL 09-30-2017 HEER CAP EAGLE & COCADE.
    Last edited by stakeside; 10-16-2017 at 09:07 PM. Reason: OLDTHINGS

  10. #9

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    Quote by stakeside View Post
    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    Bsiwula1......In spite of the poor quality photo, odd camera angle and dirty backside of this eagle, I hazard to hypothesize that this eagle was made by the same manufacturer, even on the same tooling as that twin eagle posted on Wehrmacht-Awards.

    The obverse presents itself well because someone invested in quality tooling showing much experience in casting, not stamping.

    Amortization would require either high market prices or substantial production runs.

    NACOGDOCHIAN .......Do you still have one of these DELTA eagles ? ? ?

    The reverse might become a "FINGERPRINT" to associate with Delta International, in the tradition of the MOUSTACHE Deschler skull or the JAY LENO totenkopf button.
    No, those that I had were traded away many moons ago. I recall at the time that the same outfit was selling SA & SS gruppenfuhrer tabs with metal leaves much like those pictured in this thread, with identical RZM marks. I bought several sets with both red and black backing. (They were cheap, and sold as reproductions.) I think that I may still have a set but they are in storage if I do.
    "If I wished to punish a province, I would have it governed by philosophers." Frederick the Great

  11. #10

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    Here is yet another one with links to discussions on authenticity of said eagles existence this time from LakesideTrader.

    https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=12697

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM markedmetal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    Images from LST site (same pics from WAF) however with one exception the smoking gun period picture of said insignia in situ (a nod to FB). So the configuration did in fact exist. Now is/are these examples of that period? In regards to quality of manufacture I'd say yes.

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM markedmetal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

    Comparison shots of Williams to LST example

    metal Diplomatic style eagle - RZM marked

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