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Party court visor !

Article about: by BOB COLEMAN This has become a very educational thread regarding a unique marking on early political caps. Which is why, dear friend, you and I are refugees from the maroon lunatic site an

  1. #21
    pjm
    pjm is offline
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    Default Re: Party court visor !

    The phrase "nach Vorschrift der RZM" would refer to the manufacturing regulations not uniform design regulations. So patterns, quality, materials etc would necessarily comply with RZM regulations and be "nach Vorschrift."

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Party court visor !

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    Quote by pjm View Post
    The phrase "nach Vorschrift der RZM" would refer to the manufacturing regulations not uniform design regulations. So patterns, materials etc would necessarily comply with RZM regulations.
    Thanks. Your point is the one I was trying to make, but I must say that certain of these caps do look quite real to me, even if I have never seen this "Nach Vorschrift d RZM" inscription in PO caps. The PO cap was apparently a source of un ending struggle as to adherence to regulations, at least as Saris interprets same in his book and in my own reading of the RZM circulars.
    damit, basta.

  4. #23
    ?

    Default Re: Party court visor !

    hello
    thank you for your interest
    I also saw this as marking the Daf stonemint just post, the cap has the logo in the ICA and also an RZM label.
    There is there a link?
    My cap on the courts and the orst I posted none of RZM label.
    If you are not sure of this mark I can make you more photos of the marking and the cap you will see that it is perfectly true,
    This marking may be waiting a manufacturer's code RZM?

  5. #24

    Default Re: Party court visor !

    Any and all NSDAP caps should have an RZM tag, but many do not.....
    thanks for the material of great interest.
    I am not expert in this kind of item, but I pay close attention to it, while Bob Coleman is the authority.
    damit, basta.

  6. #25

    Default Re: Party court visor !

    Since this is another matter of general interest, allow me to add translations of the documents posted above by Friedrich-Berthold for the benefit of the non-German speakers (hoping that I did not botch any of the more specialized technical terms from the capmaking craft). The first one:



    "Manufacturing Regulations for the P.O. Cap

    The P.O. cap is to be worn by the entire P.O., N.S.B.O. and N.S.-Hago.*) It is a folding cap of the type of the former officers' field cap with a brown patent leather visor. The basecloth is a worsted yarn - material stamped according to R.Z.M. regulations. - Measurements for a size 56, measured on the finished cap, crown in 4 equal-length parts, connected by vertical seams, the height of which - measured along the seams - is 5.7 cm at the front, 4.3 cm on the side, 4.9 cm at the rear.

    The cap top is edged by a 2-mm-wide colored piping and - measured in clear width - has the following measurements: From the front to the rear 26 cm, from one side to the other 24.5 cm. For the purpose of stiffening the top, a stainless steel wire frame measuring 1.5 x 0.6 mm is loosely inserted.
    In every cap, a slip is to be affixed, on which
    [...] and is removable.
    [Note: The original document has some text missing in this section!]

    The cap band including pipings is ca. 5 cm wide and edged with one 2-mm-wide piping each on the top and bottom. A 0.4-mm-thick, black, laquered, impregnated strip of cardboard**) is integrated as an insert to the cap band.

    The lining of the cap top as well as the crown consists of the finest-grade lining satin in a color matching the basecloth. Between the cloth and the cap top lining, a thinly rubberized, waterproof liner is inserted.
    As a stiffener, a brace is permanently sewn-in at the front. This consists of a wave spring, which is to be affixed to a 2-cm-wide piece of buckram, and a band spring of 0.6 mm strength, which is to be slipped in between the wave spring and the piece of buckram.
    Furthermore, a strip of cotton wool measuring 20 cm long by 6 cm wide is to be sewn into the front part and, on top of that, cap gauze into the forward panels.
    To be sewn onto the cap lining is a parallelogram-shaped celluloid panel with the following measurements: length 13.5 cm, width 10 cm.

    The visor consists of a dark brown patent top-grain leather in field-visor shape, 4.6 cm wide on the widest part and 24 cm long, measured on the finished cap.

    The cap cords are as described below.

    As a sweat leather, a 4.5 cm wide, one-piece strip of genuine sheepskin is to be inserted, which, in order to avoid any forehead pressure, has a piece of rubber sponge material glued under it at the side of the visor.

    On the crown, 10 mm above the cap band, a special national insigne is to be affixed, which can only be purchased through the R.Z.M.

    Particular care has to be taken that the cap is slightly sharp-edged and smooth to the touch.


    [Now follows a table with appropriate colors for the cap band [Rand], cap cords [Kordel], buttons [Knopf] and piping [Paspelierung] for the various organizational levels/ranks of the P.O.
    "Hellbraun Samt" means "light-brown velvet", "Grundstoff" is "base cloth", "goldgelb" is "golden yellow", "rot" is "red", "schwarz" is "black" and "hellblau" is "light blue".]



    *) Abbreviations:
    P.O. = Politische Organisation, i.e. Political Organization, referring in this case to the NSDAP's Corps of Political Leaders.
    N.S.B.O. = National-Sozialistische Betriebszellen-Organisation, i.e. The National Socialist Factory Cell Organization
    N.S.-Hago = National-Sozialistische Handwerks-, Handels- und Gewerbe-Organisation, i.e. National Socialist Crafts-, Trade- and Business Organization


    **) Referred to in the original text as "Friedenslackpappe"; a technical term with which I am not familiar. A more or less literal translation would be "peacetime lacquered cardboard"
    Last edited by HPL2008; 10-09-2011 at 09:02 PM.

  7. #26

    Default Re: Party court visor !

    The second one:


    "New form for the P.O. Cap

    Due to the previous regulations that the wire frame may only be inserted loosely in order to be able to remove it when wearing the cap, the caps have become very unsightly after prolonged wearing.

    In order to avoid this, the manufacturing of new P.O. caps is to be undertaken with the following changes:

    Measures, taken on a finished cap, size 56:

    a) Cap top: tapering to the front in an ovoid shape; diameter:
    from the front to the rear ca. 27.6 cm,
    from one side to the other ca. 24 cm;
    b) Cap crown between the pipings:
    front ca. 6.6 cm,
    lateral ca. 4.5 cm,
    rear ca. 5.2 cm;
    c) Cap band width including 2 pipings 5 cm.

    Basecloth (PO-Gabardine), cap band, pipings, visor, cap cord with buttons, cap badge, lining, sweat leather and cap band insert are still to be used as previously ordered.

    Interior fashioning: A 4 x 0.20 mm strong steel frame is permanently sewn-in underneath the cap top piping. In order to create a nicely-rounded cap top edge, a suitable 10-mm-wide insert is sewn into the cap top prior to the application of the piping. For the same purpose, a 13-mm-wide corresponding insert is sewn into the crown.

    The brace inserted into the forward part consists of a piece of buckram, which is 8 cm wide at the top and tapers down to 2.5 cm at the bottom, length is 7 cm. Sewn onto this piece of buckram are a wave spring and a stainless 0.6-cm-thick band spring of 10 cm length, which is to be firmly pushed between the wave spring and the piece of buckram.

    In addition to that, a double layer of gauze and a strip of cotton wool are sewn into the forward segments, while only narrow-width cotton gauze is used for the rearward segments.

    To be sewn into the cap's lining is a celluloid panel in parallelogram shape with the following measurements:

    Length 13.5 cm,
    Width 10 cm.

    The P.O. cap has only the national insigne, 10 mm above the cap band (2nd cap band piping).

    Patterns are supplied on request
    ."
    Last edited by HPL2008; 10-10-2011 at 12:35 AM.

  8. #27

    Default Re: Party court visor !

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Size:  71.0 KBThanks so much for the nice translations, expertly rendered. Might I also observe, that our southern German friend offers something in contrast to endless and numb skull posts about "sculls" which advance knowledge not one millimeter towards the truth.
    These RZM circulars are the point of departure for any analysis of the material before us.
    I will dig out some more as time permits, but I have no time.
    Vielen Dank!
    damit, basta.

  9. #28

    Default Re: Party court visor !

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ID:	249142God grant us the serenity to know the meaning of this place, and to reflect happily on same....
    damit, basta.

  10. #29
    pjm
    pjm is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Party court visor !

    Can it be that makers received a provisory permit to manufacture under RZM regulations before actually being licensed? In that case, perhaps they were allowed to mark their wares "Nach Vorschrift der RZM." If tags were distributed by the RZM only after licensing, perhaps this process allowed the maker to produce and sell without having tags to sew into the caps, etc.

  11. #30

    Default Re: Party court visor !

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    Quote by pjm View Post
    Can it be that makers received a provisory permit to manufacture under RZM regulations before actually being licensed? In that case, perhaps they were allowed to mark their wares "Nach Vorschrift der RZM." If tags were distributed by the RZM only after licensing, perhaps this process allowed the maker to produce and sell without having tags to sew into the caps, etc.
    I do not think such a probationary license existed from what I have read of the Mitteilungsblaetter of the RZM, and I have read much of the years 1934-1935 when this system was constructed.
    The cap makers had to buy the tags from the RZM in accordance with their licenses. I have appended the relevant pages of the Handbuch, which describes the state of things ca. mid 1935 in another place here.
    I have also added several pages from the Mitteilungsblaetter. The RZM people were total pains in the ass, in fact, but they claimed to respond to abuses by vendors of party uniform who acted in rogue fashion, to say nothing of the desire to drive Jews out of the apparel trade connected with the NSDAP.
    damit, basta.

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