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Reichsbahn collar tabs and shoulder boards

Article about: issued for pay group 11 to 8 and 7a. i honestly don`t have a clue what these pay groups actually were, but any info. is appreciated!! Stig

  1. #1

    Default Reichsbahn collar tabs and shoulder boards

    issued for pay group 11 to 8 and 7a.
    i honestly don`t have a clue what these pay groups actually were, but any info. is appreciated!!
    Stig
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  3. #2

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    It's all about DRB-functions and in some ways quite difficult.

    With one star/pip it is Besoldungsgruppe 7, being:
    Vermessungsinspektor
    Kanzleivorsteher der Hauptverwaltung
    Reichsbahninspektor

    Without the star/pip it was Besoldungsgruppe 8 and 7a, being:
    Kanzleisekretär der Hauptverwaltung
    Kanzleivorsteher de Reichsbahndirektionen or Reichsbahn-Zentralämter
    Reichsbahnobersekretär
    Vermessungsobersekretär
    Lokomotivbetriebsrevisor
    Betriebsoberwerkmeister
    Oberlokomotivführer
    (information is taken from original DRB-orders)

    The Rosette came into being in about mid-1941 (actual order from February 13, 1941).
    With the date July 3, 1941 the so-called Passanten were introduced instead of the old
    form shoulder-straps. Later the old shoulder-straps were re-introduced again.
    I thought this was in November 1943. The Passanten were hardly able to be delivered
    it appears and for that reason the shoulder-straps came back.

    The collar-patch is for a close tunic and is for a worker (Arbeiter).
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  4. #3

    Default

    ok. so this is NOT a matching pair?
    Stig

  5. #4

    Default

    Just a little additional background info to the matter of German pay groups and officials' titles, as this may well be confusing to those not familiar with the subject:

    German officials/civil servants were and are paid according to fixed pay groups. Under the then-current regulations, pay groups ranged from 17a to 1, with 17a being the lowest and 1 the highest. (The system nowadays is different, but this would lead to far.)

    The actual Amtsbezeichnung (roughly "title of office", i.e. the equivalent to a military rank designation) held by an official has always depended on his pay group as well as the body by which he is employed and his professional career group and occupational specialty.

    Thus, the different titles mentioned by Wim. A Vermessungsinspektor was a geographical survey offficial. A generic Reichsbahinspektor was an operational official, whereas a technical official would be referred to as a Technischer Reichsbahninspektor specifically.

    The diversity was particularly great at the lower levels of the Reichsbahn. As an example, I'll give you the possible titles for uniformed Reichsbahn officials of the humble pay group 15:

    • Zugschaffner, Oberzugschaffner (for train conductors)
    • Triebwagenschaffner, Triebwagenoberschaffner (for railcar conductors)
    • Fahrladeschaffner, Fahrladeoberschaffner (for cargo handlers on trains)
    • Rottenführer, Oberrottenführer (for work gang personnel)
    • Rangieraufseher (for shunters)
    • Leitungsaufseher, Leitungsoberaufseher (for overhead wiring maintenance personnel)
    • Maschinist (for machinists)
    • Matrose, Obermatrose (for sailors on Reichsbahn-operated ships)



    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    The collar-patch is for a close tunic and is for a worker (Arbeiter).
    I respectfully beg to differ there. The collar patch for an Arbeiter didn't have the oak leaves. This one would be the collar patch for officials of pay groups 11 through 8 and 7a, but missing its alternating blue- and gold piping.


    Quote by bittaker View Post
    ok. so this is NOT a matching pair?
    No. The collar patch to go with the shoulder boards would have a cluster of four oak leaves and gold piping.

  6. #5

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    the collar tabs are to be worn on the tunic without any shoulder boards? just for a "arbeiter?"
    thanx for taking the time to look at this : )
    Stig

  7. #6

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    Quote by bittaker View Post
    the collar tabs are to be worn on the tunic without any shoulder boards? just for a "arbeiter?"
    No. Collar patches and shoulder boards were worn together. Shoulder boards identified the exact pay group, whereas the collar patches identified broader ranges of pay group levels.

    The system for the collar patches was:

    • Arbeiter [workers/laborers] = winged wheel with Swastika, no oak leaves, no piping
    • Officials of pay groups 17a - 12 (i.e. the einfacher Dienst [basic-level career]) = winged wheel with Swastika, no oak leaves, gold/blue piping
    • Officials of pay groups 11 - 8 and 7a (i.e. the mittlerer Dienst [mid-level career]) = winged wheel with Swastika, cluster of 2 oak leaves, gold/blue piping
    • Officials of pay groups 7 - 6 (i.e. the gehobener Dienst [elevated career]) = winged wheel with Swastika, cluster of 4 oak leaves, gold piping
    • Officials of pay group 5 and higher (i.e. the höherer Dienst [high-grade career]) = winged wheel with Swastika, cluster of 8 oak leaves, gold piping


    (Angestellte [employees] with the right to wear the uniform wore collar patches with the winged wheel and piping, but no oak leaves. Employees in salary groups [Vergütungsgruppen; not identical to the officials' pay groups [Besoldungsgruppen] 1 - 5 wore gold piping and 6 - 7 wore blue/gold piping.)

    All of these collar patches came in versions in a "vertical" and a "horizontal" orientation. "Vertical" was for wear on open-collar tunics; "horizontal" - as seen here - for closed-collar tunics.

  8. #7

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    HPL you're right. I obviously was "sleeping" with my eyes open.
    I did not look well. I thought there was no oakleaf.
    The oakleaf as shown is for an official of pay-group 11 trough 8 and 7a.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  9. #8

    Default

    nice thread and good info guys.

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