Ring zur Förderung Deutsch - Englisher Freundschaft

[Jo Rivett]

Although i will be using this badge in my next book, the book is not really about this badge, or any specific badge, so i dont mind posting it here. Knowing me and my laid back way of writing, the next book will take forever anyway, so why not now I have known about this for many years, but have never actually had one myself, so any mention of it, especially in the very heavy handed context i will be mentioning it in, (yes, insulting more dealers, yes being rude again) would be the old way of writing, the J.R Cone way... the "I have seen before... but have not pictured.." way.

Thanks to a collector who i am not sure if he wants to be mentioned by name, but if he does then i will, i have recently managed to get my black hooves on, what must be considered an exceptionally rare badge. Everything mentioned about this "ring" in the Werner Heering and André Hüsken small badge flip through books, is wrong. Every picture of this "English friendship badge" found either in-print, or for sale by dealers, is a twisted post war fake.

The Ring zur Förderung der Deutsch - Englischer Freundschaft, was set up by the Dienststelle Ribbentrop in 1935, and although lasted on paper until 1939, was only really active until the 1936-37 period, and it was very small. There were a few of these "rings" set up under the Dienststelle Ribbentrop, Polish, French, Dutch, American as well. (Although be careful, every American ring badge that you have seen on line or in-print so far, is also a twisted fake)

I have started a new thread, simply because the others are tainted, and this kind of information is not something that should take it`s place on post 45, and get lost in time.

Yes there was a English-German ring, and yes there was a badge, almost identical to the twisted fakes pictured in the Hüsken catalogs. So a fantasy badge or invented organization it is not. There are a few differences though, firstly, it has the correct German terminology: RING FÜR DEUTSCH - ENGLISCHE FREUNDSCHAFT, and secondly, it has the correct Union Jack flag No measurements will be given, but in any case it would not be possible to fake anyway without instantly being exposed under the microscope.

Sooner or later people will start waking up, and realizing that our hobby, is in a mess! And that the black sheep, is a goodly sheep

[Jo Rivett]

The question now is... how?

For over 30 years it has been in-print with the:

Wrong name (Britisch instead of what the ring was known as, Englische[r])
Wrong grammar (supposing that it was just taken for granted that the name was correct)
Wrong flag (This is not the union jack, close, but no banana)

I guess the person that could answer this question, may also be able to answer the question posed on this thread...
► https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/non-c...-100-a-322296/ ◄

and i imagine, that this, is but the very tip of the iceberg.

[Scout]

Good job 'outing' these.

Go git 'em, Black Attack Sheep!!

[SteveR]

Interesting information.

[DrPMC]

I'd be interested to hear a little bit more about the 'Ring zur Förderung der Deutsch - Englischer Freundschaft', as I can't find any references to it in any of the standard references about British Nazi sympathisers (Richard Griffiths, Fellow Travellers of the Right and Patriotism Perverted). Griffiths mentions the Anglo-German Fellowship and the Anglo German Link, both of which operated in Britain with a similar purpose.

One thing that I find slightly puzzling is that - if I am correct to understand that the Ring zur Förderung der Deutsch - Englischer Freundschaft was intended to foster warmer relations between Britain and Germany is that it had German text when it was presumably meant to worn by English men and women.

I see in Jamie Cross' booklet British Fascist Regalia he includes a badge for an 'Anglo German Youth Movement', which is a different shape but with the two flags as in the example above. Cross states: 'This badge is known to exist and an order was placed with the firm of Thomas Fattorini, Birimingham Ltd on 3/4/1936. By whom or for how many is not known. So far all those found have been of modern manufacture [...] It is believed someone somewhere must have found and original and had a batch of these copies made in the early 1990s.' (p. 59) The source for this information is a letter from Fattorini, dating from 1992.

As to this Anglo German Youth Movement, I've no idea. I've been researching fascism in Britain for years but can't recall any reference to it.

Philip

[Erno]

One thing that I find slightly puzzling is that - if I am correct to understand that the Ring zur Förderung der Deutsch - Englischer Freundschaft was intended to foster warmer relations between Britain and Germany is that it had German text when it was presumably meant to worn by English men and women.

Could it have been produced in Germany for Germans? The buttonhole attachment looks like the ones used on Deumer party badges, but I don't know how many other firms used the same type or if it was in common use worldwide. If it's of German construction, it seems like it could have been meant for use in Germany, maybe by English immigrants. Would such an organization have been legal during the Third Reich era?

[Jo Rivett]

Philip, The badge that started this thread off was not made in the UK, but rather in Germany, to be worn by the German members of this small "ring" hence the German language on it, hence the slogan promoting German-English relations. (It was not a one-sided organization with only English coming to Germany to take part in sports events etc.. but also Germans going to the UK to do the same) The badge you show, if it existed at all, was certainly made in Birmingham by Fattorini. The Anglo German Movement was (in a rough sense) the sister organization of the English Ring under the "Büro Ribbentrop"

I too have the self-printed Jamie Cross booklet that you mention, and have also "had" a few of the badges you show - each one showing nothing like what i would expect to find on a badge made in 1936, by Fattorini. (I have a few badges made by them around this era)
Fattorini is still in business today (LINK) making exactly what they did 80 years ago - badges. And seeing as it would not be illegal in the UK to reproduce fascist as well as Nazi badges, and seeing as: IF the badge you showed existed, then the comment by J.Cross [on page 53 not 59] that:

`It is believed that someone somewhere must have found an original and had a batch of these copes[sic!] made in the early 1990`s'

is interesting.

Birmingham was not bombed out like many German cities were, it was also not occupied by foreign forces for years who were thieving everything they could get their little fingers on. So IF these were copied, then who is this "someone" who it is believed copied them? Common sense will work that out for you.
I am not a fan of the "It is believed" way of debating, and especially not when this comes from the source it does.

Yes it depicts the Union Jack correctly, but each item must be judged on it`s own merit, and not just compared to others that are good and a "It is believed" assumption reached. Even when information is lacking - which when it comes to these very small and short lived organizations is, i dont see any reason to include a claim - or statement - like J.Cross did. It serves only to confuse, and promote the old way of collecting. Collecting on a whim and prayer, and on the basis that someone wrote "it is believed that..."

These Anglo German Youth Movement badges have been discussed before, with some people (an english dealer) believeing that they are fantasy. (LINK) and on that same link you will find collectors (English as well) believeing that they are very rare and did exist. Do you see now why it is not wise to publish one long sentence like J.Cross did, doing nothing but giving collectors hope that there indeed was an original - yet he could not picture an original? indeed nobody yet has been able to publish an original. This is very telling, and from where i am sitting right now, points towards hearsay.

When i was finishing my last book, i was in contact with André Hüsken a lot, and towards the end of our brief relationship i posed some pretty awkward questions about badges that i proved in my book were fantasy, yet from Hüsken i would get the response .. "But i know of originals!" Yes, an author who has been publishing small badge catalogs since over 30 years, "knows of originals" yet every time he has shown these badges in question in his catalogs, they have been easy to recognize fakes (or complete fantasy badges) So you see, i let common sense take over before i take my wallet out and even think of chasing the dream.

I hope maybe that this thread will show a few people how it should be done in future, if there is an original - of whatever - then the author, claimer, debunker, researcher - whatever, really needs to show that original, and not just picture a fake accompanied by some story. Do you know where J.Cross got his story from? I dont, but lets just assume that he has the very letter from Fattorini that he lists on page 53, dating from 31/1/1992, although on page 55 under Sources Used there is no mention of any correspondence from Fattorini (unless he includes a 1992 letter under the top sources used: Mostly period paperwork of the time and private collectors sources?) But lets just say that there is such a letter. Think about where the letter is coming from.. from a known maker of fascist items, who is still making the same stuff today, and who will in all likelihood still have each and every die in the basement that they ever made and used! And while you are thinking about that, include this into your thoughts; The United Kingdom is, and has always been since the end of the war, a forgers paradise.

Some sources that might interest you: (Sometimes it helps to get away from collectors books written by dealers who also sell what they write about when facts are needed)
An idyllic and unruffled atmosphere of complete Anglo-German misunderstanding’: Aspects of the Operations of the Dienststelle Ribbentrop in Great Britain, 1934–1938 - G. T. Waddington (available online (PDF) or in-print.
Die Außenpolitik des Dritten Reiches. Oldenbourg, Marie-Luise Recker - München 1990
Nationalsozialistische Außenpolitik 1933 bis 1938 - Hans-Adolf Jacobsen

[Adrian Stevenson]

As ever, interesting stuff!

Thanks Jo.

Cheers, Ade.

[DrPMC]

My thanks to Metallwarenfabrik for his detailed comments and for the references, which are new ones for me, which I shall investigate.

I entirely concur with what he says about the need for rigor in positively demonstrating the authenticity of a badge or any other artifact. 'It is believed' is hearsay and ultimately worthless as evidence and even a reference in a published secondary work is deserving of a healthy skepticism. I have often found the work of respectable academic writers in my main field of interest to be full of errors of fact and shocking distortions, probably the consequence of sloppy, hurried work or even of a semi-conscious desire to make the facts fit their thesis. On occasions, the original primary source is the distant starting point for a chain of citations which at each step have distorted the true message, like a game of Chinese whispers. It's my feeling that there is no real substitute for seeking out the primary source - the musty yellowing paper itself. Naturally this isn't always practical, but through experience it should be possible to recognise a researcher whose work demonstrates appropriate rigor and method.

Regards, Philip

[Erno]

Sorry if this has been addressed, but is it safe to assume the the Amerikanische version of this badge is pure fantasy? I've seen someone claiming that they were distributed at the 1939 New York World's Fair by the Amerika-Deutscher Volksbund, which is obviously untrue.