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RZM Marks of the NSDAP

Article about: list of RZM Mark : M1- badges and insignia (Metallabzeichen) M2- sub-contractors ( Hilfsbetriebe) M3- symbols ( Symbole ) M4- belt buckles ( Koppelschloss ) M5- uniform fittings (Uniformeffe

  1. #41

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    We are very fortunate to have some very scholarly gentlemen here.. FB, Wilhelm, and others...

    Thank you for sharing the knowledge with us..

    Smitty

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  3. #42

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    Here how it was announced in the Mitteilungsblatt der Reichszeugmeisterei,
    number 17 from August 13, 1938, page 159. This publication came after the
    publishing of the 1938 RZM-handbook and the additional lists for Austria. It
    was new in the section, Abteilung Metall:
    Die Erlaubnis zur Herstellung oder zum Verkauf parteiamtlicher Gegenstände
    wurde erteilt
    :

    RZM Marks of the NSDAP

    About Clyde Davis: his lists published, are in some ways sloppy and do not give
    any information about the eventual withdrawing of a permission. This can give
    wrong thoughts, while immediately after the publishing of the RZM-handbook
    from 1935 the RZM started to withdraw permissions. Some collector may think
    a specific manufacturer may have produced for the RZM until the end, but in fact
    lost the permission already in 1936.

    How quick things could go:
    when the special RZM-list about Austrian manufacturers was published in 1938
    the concern of Leo Rostik, widow Fransiska Rostik at Vienna XIV was not even
    mentioned, but with issue 15 from July 16, 1938 it was noted the permission
    was withdrawn with the date June 28, 1938.
    Consider for yourself if lists can have any value, when the withdrawing of such
    permissions is not mentioned!!
    For me personnallly all such lists suck and Davis is given too much credit!

  4. #43

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    Wim, you are right as ever. But have you or someone I have overlooked published this revised list, or are your statements from your own decades of research?
    I have some of the RZM circulars on disc, that is, the 1934 and 1935 and then, recently, I bought some in their original form. The tos and fros there are mind boggling.
    That is, I am sure you have scoped it out, but has someone else? I bought Davis' book in 1 9 7 6, which you will warrant me is a long time ago for most here.
    I would also say that the state of knowledge then was primitive. In fact, Davis misspelled Hoelzle's name. His was the very first analysis of the RZM I ever read,
    ergo my adherence to it. If you can name me a better source, I am very eager to learn. Once more, we are grateful to you. I abhor all lists that give an
    impression of the thing being the same and unchanging for twelve long years, when any sane person knows how chaotic the Nazi system really was.RZM Marks of the NSDAPRZM Marks of the NSDAPRZM Marks of the NSDAPRZM Marks of the NSDAP

  5. #44

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    I do own all periodicals from the RZM magazine up until the end
    of 1944. I also have on disc the handbook, as well as the 1936
    and 1938 manufacturing regulations. The last does include the
    numbers from the 1938-moment. It is all copies. I do not need
    any original to read what I need.
    The Davis booklet I may have gotten also in about 1977 or so,
    the additional booklet (blue paper print) came later.

    As mentioned before: when not having the withdrawn permissions
    one does not know really what was going on.

    The editors from the RZM occasionally were sloppy and with so
    many occasions they did not include new entries for permissions,
    and also did forget to include those whose permission was
    withdrawn. Many people do think when having the RZM sources
    one has the holy grail. It is my opinion one does have information,
    just like that. No more then that. You also need the sources for the
    SA, HJ or whatever NSDAP organization.

  6. #45

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    Aha, you see. Is the 1938 edition to be had commercially?

    Someone recently published the 1935 Handbuch, but I own the original and it cost me too much money.

    I got some of the circulars from Jenkins, and they are a prized possession.

    Once more, thanks for all you do and your considerable knowledge. I would note that knowledge advances, and you have pushed us all there.

    I am with you that the kind of lists as found at the head of this thread are too simple and one sided.

    Thanks so much.

    If there is somewhere I can buy the 1938 manufacturing regulations, please tell me.

    The 1936 one has been widely reprinted in Germany and is fairly easy to get. I bought a copy

    in my favorite bookstore in Charlottenburg.

  7. #46

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    I do own all periodicals from the RZM magazine up until the end
    of 1944. I also have on disc the handbook, as well as the 1936
    and 1938 manufacturing regulations. The last does include the
    numbers from the 1938-moment. It is all copies. I do not need
    any original to read what I need.
    The Davis booklet I may have gotten also in about 1977 or so,
    the additional booklet (blue paper print) came later.

    As mentioned before: when not having the withdrawn permissions
    one does not know really what was going on.

    The editors from the RZM occasionally were sloppy and with so
    many occasions they did not include new entries for permissions,
    and also did forget to include those whose permission was
    withdrawn. Many people do think when having the RZM sources
    one has the holy grail. It is my opinion one does have information,
    just like that. No more then that. You also need the sources for the
    SA, HJ or whatever NSDAP organization.

    Thanks. That the RZM editors were sloppy is a very fine point.
    The degree to which all this regulation and counter regulation confused
    everyone is among the more important historical insights to be derived
    from your work and our general labor here.
    I have not spent much time, other than indirectly in your books,
    with the body of regulations of the other branches of the NSDAP.
    Thanks again. Collectors do not know what a treasure they have in you.


    Thanks so much and happy Spring to you in Holland. I am trying
    to come to Germany, but it is like molasses here.

  8. #47

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    The Handbook for the RZM was put on disc by Jo Rivett.
    I thought he sells it for about 125,- euro or so.
    He got from me the material from 1938 and did include it.

    The magazines are not reprinted, as far as I know. Some
    German archives, having this stuff, are not even willing
    to make copies anymore. They always have some reason
    for not helping out (put a German guy on track to this material.
    The only thing he received was being dealt with unfriendly
    with the first question being: if he was a nazi!).

  9. #48

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    In my file from the Vogtland or Erzgebirge cotton goods maker, you can see that they got into regular tax problems, and then lost their RZM license.
    I have the whole file of their RZM career, that is, their interaction with this goons in Munich, and it was plainly a make work project for berserk
    mercantilist qua racists with anything other than a free market approach to the textile trade.

    I wonder what happened to all the central files that were on the Tergernseer Landstrasse, that is, the complex on the way out of town?

    The US side must have seized it, no? Is it in the Bavarian State Library or in the NARA?

  10. #49

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    The Handbook for the RZM was put on disc by Jo Rivett.
    I thought he sells it for about 125,- euro or so.
    He got from me the material from 1938 and did include it.

    The magazines are not reprinted, as far as I know. Some
    German archives, having this stuff, are not even willing
    to make copies anymore. They always have some reason
    for not helping out (put a German guy on track to this material.
    The only thing he received was being dealt with unfriendly
    with the first question being: if he was a nazi!).
    Thanks. I saw the Handbuch disc which is recent.
    The 1934 and 1935 Mitteilungsblaetter exist in Samizdat on disc,
    and I have those, and, of course, a smattering of the others from 1934 until about 1938,
    which cost me too much money.

    Archives in Germany do not exist for collectors, truth be told.
    You generally have to have a scholarly affiliation and now
    they have enormous user fees, which is true everywhere.
    I would go broke today if I did the research I did in the 1980s
    to write my PhD dissertation.

    Our world is less pleasant than it once was, and
    the poison mood in society and government is very sad, indeed.
    Don't I know it.

    Thanks Wim for everything.
    Like the RZM tag, we all should pay a penny every time you post, because the quality of knowledge is of such merit.

  11. #50

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    Thanks for the comments FB.
    I was lucky years ago. Then they were friendly, especially
    those from archives from the DDR. Most I was helped by
    females and as a"reward" I did send parfum and expensive
    soap. No problem to get material. If I had questions they
    did not ask me money, just gave me the information needed
    and so I bought a lot of copied material, within a few years
    after Germany became one. Later I was informed all those
    nice people were sacked, it was said they were former
    Stasi-personnel. True or not, I do not know, nor did I ever
    care. They were friendly, which I can't say from people
    from the Bundesarchiv. Okay not all were so and did help
    sometimes.
    I had found so much in former eastern archives, I could
    not afford it me to buy all of it. Now I do regret.

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