Sport insignia 1900-1945
There seams to be a lack of info on this forum on the topic of sport shirt insignia. I would ask that this be pinned at some point. I have worked on this topic before on Wehrmacht Awards for some time and encourage others to add there opinions and items to this thread. My collection is primarily this topic and I collect from 1900 to 1945 so if you have an item related to this topic that you would like to sell then please contact me, not only do I collect it but I have a network of others that collect it and I can help you move the item along. If you are considering collecting this topic I encourage you to get the book "Sports and the Third Reich" by Rob Newbrough, it is a 2 volume book and explains a lot about the history of this subject and it is the only one on the subject. Since the book has been written there has been many new items discovered.
I am always looking to expand my collection and I will list a few of many items I am looking for through out this thread I might show photos of some items that are related to the topic that I am looking for. If you have any of these and wish to sell PM me, even if you do not want to sell it I would love to know you have it this way if the day comes we can make a deal.
03-02-2015 04:25 PM
My definitions are based off of my experience and that of other collectors with over 100 years combined collecting experience. Keep in mined new things come out every day.
The prices below are just meant to give an idea of what to expect to pay and does not mean every thing in certain categories cant be found cheap.
(Common) You can fined it any day any place. $25 - $75 2nd SS $200 - $250
(Uncommon) 3-6 months to find, $75 - $150
(Not so Common) 1 year to find $75 - $200
(Hard to find) 1-3 year $100 - $600
(One of a kind) Not literal but close, only a few exsamples known to me 3+ years $100 - $800
(only one known) New things come out all the time but until another shows up this is the only one I know of. $100 +
SS 2nd pattern sport patches with paper tag should be no more then $225 and $250 for cloth tag. Dealers price them so high not do to there rarity because they are not rare, these fit in the common category but are priced high simply because it is SS. If you wait you can find them for as low as $150 some times less depending on condition and with a tag or with out.
Last edited by gunny 249; 03-03-2015 at 02:32 AM.
NSRL / DRL Standarte / Standard
(only on known)
Bayern is Bavaria in German.
This at one time was denazified and a beaded star of David sown on it. At some point the beads were removed, I assume to see if the swastika was behind it. What was found was a big hole, so it was sold of to my friend Rob were he realized that who ever cut out the swastika did so with great care and that all the pieces except the swastika was still there. He then had Dave Delich repair this and matched up a swastika material perfectly and with out knowing this you can not tell with out extremely close examination.
Why the star of David? I have learned that the Bayern football teams were primarily Jewish and were always made fun of because of this so I can safely assume some one from the team or one that new of this took it and did the star of David.
There is little info on the NSRL standarte but there is one pictured with the High commander of the DRL Hans von Tschammer und Osten and during his funeral. It is believed that each district had one and only one of these for the district leader and with the districts name on it. With that said there should have been more but could be the only one for this district. As of now I along with others have yet to find another in a museum or any where else for that matter and I would love to know if there are any others in collections. There is a toper and that will come next.
Last edited by gunny 249; 03-03-2015 at 02:35 AM.
NSRL / DRL
Standarte / Standard toper
I am trying to track this down so that I can reunite the toper with the standard.
This sold I think a year or so ago at auction and I would like to know who has it.
I believe this toper and the standard belong together since they are the only one known of each to exist and they belong back together so please keep an eye out for it.
Deutsche Turnerschaft (DT)
The German Gymnastics Association (DT) was from 1868 to 1936 the umbrella organization of civil gymnastics clubs in Germany until DRA, then NSRL then DRL
The 2 red bevo are (common) patches
The 2 Blue are (uncommon)
the black are (one of a kind) the one with black backing is 1 of 3 that I know of and the one with white backing is the only one I know of.
The chainstitched is also the only one I have been able to find and I have been looking for 3 years just for this one. I just got this from e-medals.
I am still looking for a large one I seen once on ebay.
I do not know what the colors mean if anything.
he did a great job of repair on the banner Gunny,and thanks for a great thread and info mate.
The following patches are rare in there own right. These are clubs,schools, towns, cities, company and so on. Sports was a big part of the German people way before 3rd Reich. Most shirt patches before the 3rd Reich and into the early days of it were chainstitched not bevo. Here are some examples and all are the only ones of each I have come across during my collecting.
Before I go further let me explain the fakes I will go more in depth but ST let me say that some think these are made from an original witch has been proven to be true a few times but I do not believe that to be true on some of these. Collect at your own risk but I will say I refuse to buy any of these except the ones that I have found the real ones of.
The stuff you see all the time.
NSBO 99% fake
Yellow NSFK 99% fake
Small green police eagle all FAKE.
Small blue early police eagle all FAKE
DLV 99% Fake
SA eagle not sport, Fake.
SS eagle not sport, Fake.
There are modern fakes of the Luftwaffe, Heer, and Kriegsmarine. These fakes are clearly fake or replica and if you can not tell then you need to rethink your collection.
Before I go further on the fakes let me explain the common how to tell tips.
(THE GLOW TEST)
You need a black light not a strong black light, these tend to make any thing glow because it is to strong and bright. If you are at a show have a known good patch to compare to this way you can see the obvious difference. Do it in the dark even if you have to go under the table, the light around you can interfere. I have never seen an original glow, but if ever washed with modern brighteners it will glow. Brighteners were used in the 40's but rarely and would not have been used on something that has never been on a shirt. So keep in mind if it glows does not mean it is defenatly a fake just that it is a check against it.
Every one that is a collector must have a high magnification magnify glass or eye peace.
When looking at cloth, the main thing you are looking for is if the thread is twisted together or if it is just straight and stringy. When doing this do not just look at the main pattern but also examine the backing material. I have seen some fakes that glow and have twisted thread but fails the next test miserably NSBO and DLV being some of them.
(THE BURN TEST)
I do all of these tests even if I have no doubt of it being original.
This is the final test take a loose thread and burn it, If it burns fast like puff and smells natural like leaves or wood burning then your good. This is because modern materials need to have fire retardant on them so if it burns slow and smells like plastic or chemicals then it is no good.
(THE SMELL TEST)
Serves no real purpose but gives me an idea of what type of environment it has been in.
So if the glow test fails but passes the rest then you cold be good.
If the twisted thread fails then it is no good.
If it passes the 1st 2 but fails the burn test then you need to examine it further I suppose it is possible to have been around chemicals that could have reacted with the material.
If any one has other tips please list them.