Great information! This thread stays at the top.
Great information! This thread stays at the top.
LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.
Thanks Bob & Dimas!
The TeNo • TN • Technische Nothilfe - is one of the TR Orgs, about which
correct & Documented information, has been lacking for a long time! It is
only very recently that Authors & TR Historians have shown a growing interest -
& have provided Collectors with Great references about the TeNo.
Sharing information with other Collectors, will help in understanding the TeNo,
and in being able to ID (Identify) TeNo Items, which might be found at
Shows or from Dealers. ... Txs, Dave/dblmed
Thank you for opening this thread, Dave ! I really love TeNo Uniforms and always look for new information.
Here is my little TeNo-collection. Not sooo exciting, but maybe somebody looks for reference pictures.
The Assmann buttons are marked: "hochfeine Qualität" 24 M
I think they are for a greatcoat.
The smaller single button has two rings at the back ("Koppeltragehilfe" for a dress jacket)
The shoulder boards are for the TeNo-rank of "Vormann".
Can someone tell me the date of wear? Are there different patterns, for example pre-war - mid- or late war?
You have some Very NICE TeNo Items! Good Going!
TeNo Insignia are so very distinct & so well made - as well as having characteristics which are Not seen in the Insignia of ANY other TR Organization.
• The TeNo Buttons are Super. They bear the 'classic' TN-in-Cogwheel design. Assmann was the 1st & the prime supplier, but TeNo Buttons by other Makers have also been found.
• Your two TN Vormann Boards are very Special & they are Not often found.
Just by chance, your 2 Boards exhibit 2 of the 3 "Known" Variants of TN Vormann Shoulder Boards. I 'believe' that both of the Boards are "Promotion" types - having started out as TeNo Mann or as TeNo Anwarter Boards (those Types without any Tresse, as I will explain below) & they had Tresse added, when there was a Rank Promotion. (NO PROBLEM - They are BOTH 100% Legit, & Correct TeNo Shoulder Boards!)
3 TYPES of TeNo Vormann Boards:
• 'Classic' TeNo Vormann Board - has the 2 bands of Tresse (with 2 Black Lines) & the Tresse is 'factory sewn' underneath the Silver w Black "V" Piping Cord. These 'factory sewn' Vormann boards have No Tresse showing underneath the Board.
• TeNo Vormann Board A - is a Neat example which is the "Wrap Over" TRESSE Type, as the 2 rows of Tresse Wrap Over the Piping Cord, & the continue underneath the Board. Then, the Tresse is sewn into place, on the underside. (A1) Thus, may collectors feel that these represent a 'Promotion' - with the Tresse was added (most reasonably one Tresse at a time, as the higher TeNo Rank was awarded.
• TeNo Vormann Board B - is also a Super example & it shows the "Piping Stop' TRESSE Type.
The 2 rows of Tresse do stop at the Piping, but look to been later added, IMO. (B1) Tacking (Sewn) Threads are seen on the Top of the Board, at each end of the Tresse. The B Set could also be the 'Classic' Type - but the Tresse 'appears' to be slightly overlapping the Piping? (You are able to better see which is the correct comment, with the Board in hand.)
BOTH are Great TeNo Vormann Boards! CONGRATS!
I'd love to see a Photo of the underside of Both A & B - as that will tell us a lot more!
I'll Post some TeNo Rank Charts later & answer the 'When Vormann?' question soon - unless one of the other guys beats me to it!
Thanks for Posting your Super TeNo Items! ... Dave/dblmed
Last edited by dblmed; 09-04-2009 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Sp
A clearer Image of the 2 Variations of the TeNo Vormann Shoulder
Boards. .... Txs, Dave/dblmed
Wow! Great analysis, Dave!
Here are some pictures of the undersides:
Oops! The TeNo Shoulder Boards are for the Rank of Obervormann - & - NOT for Vormann.
I didn't check the Rank Charts closely enough!
Your neat TeNo boards are for the Rank Change of 1940 - June 1, 1943
showing the Rank of OBERVORMANN (with the 2 Tresse Stripes) -
whereas VORMANN had only 1 Tresse Stripe. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed
The DUTCH TeNo • TN - The TECHNISCHE NOODHULP
• DUTCH TN 'Circle' Patch, in Wear:
This very nice Foto shows the Dutch TN ‘Circle’ Patch Armscheibe being worn by the Noodhelper on the very Far RIGHT & another Noodhelper, on the Left Sleeve. They are dressed in the off white 'Drillich' / Working Uniform, similar to that of the German TeNo • TN.
• GERMAN TeNo • TN (Technische Nothilfe) OFFICERS: (LEFT) are wearing the Field-grey uniforms & Grey Visors which have the ‘Standard’ TN Eagle Abzeichen, above the Laurel Leaf Mützenkranz.
• DUTCH TeNo • TN (Technische Noodhulp) OFFICERS: (RIGHT) are wearing the TN Dunkelblau uniform & a Dunkelblau Visor - BOTH items with specific differences from those of the German TN. ...... Txs, Dave/dblmed
The DUTCH TeNo • TN - The TECHNISCHE NOODHULP-2 - OFFICER'S UNIFORMS (German TN vs. the Dutch TN)
(A-1) This special Foto shows that the German TN Officers (LEFT) are wearing the Field-grey uniforms & Grey Visors which have the ‘Standard’ TN Eagle Abzeichen, above the Laurel Leaf Mützenkranz.
(A-2) The Foto shows that the DUTCH TN Officers (RIGHT) are wearing the TN Dunkelblau uniform & a Dunkelblau Visor - BOTH items with specific differences from those of the German TN.
• The Dutch TN Officer [Silver Chin Cord on Visor] has NO TN Eagle Abzeichen, but instead has some sort of a “Circle” Emblem (Yet to be Determined.) Also, Does the Dutch TN Officer wear the ‘standard’ TN Laurel Leaf Mützenkranz – or – another special Dutch Type? (I am Not able to see it well enough to have an Opinion?)
• The Dutch TN Officer would Actually be an EM, “IF” he were in the German TN, by wearing matching Cog-Wheel Collar Patches (Tabs) – but “WHO KNOWS” the Ranking Chart for the Technische Noodhulp? (It is still an ‘Unknown’ – to the best of my knowledge.)
• The Dutch TN Officer has NO Shoulder Boards (either a Single or a Double set) on his uniform. This is Totally different from the German TN – so this is also a NEW Finding.
• His Belt Buckle is smaller, of EM/NCO Size – BUT, this is Not a Positive Finding, as there are Many Fotos of German TN Officers, who wear EM/NCO Claw Type Buckles.
(B) The Foto also shows a German TN Officer, saluting, & who is wearing the Field-grey uniform, BUT he has NO COG on his Collar Patch (Tab)! IMO, this helps to date the Foto to mid-1943, or later – as there are numerous other Fotos of this ‘yet unexplained’ NO COG being worn, Observation. IMO, there are ‘yet to be found’ TN Orders to remove the COGS from the Collar Patches (Tabs) – sometime after the Last TN Rank & Insignia Change of May 19, 1943, effective June 1, 1943.
(C) The Foto additionally shows that the Dutch TN was continuing to wear COGS on their Collar Patches (Tabs) – at a time when the German TN had STOPPED using them. Interesting NEW Dutch TN Information! Additionally - the Dutch TN Officer has a PIPED Lapel, which was NOT being used by the German TN, at this point in time. MORE New Information for us! Perhaps, the Piping, is for Officers only?
(D) The German TN Officers wear Pistols, while the Dutch TN Officer does NOT have a Pistol. (But, this is a minor finding & is not significant, IMO.)
(Hopefully, there may be a Dutch TN Collector - or a Dutch WWII Museum, with a Dutch TN Officer’s Uniform – & – the Visor?) ... Txs, Dave/dblmed.
ATTACHMENT: Enlargement of the Prior Foto
TeNo LEFT Sleeve Armscheiben & Eagles – 4 Basic Types
The various types of TeNo Cloth Insignia “Armscheibe / Ärmelabzeichen” which were worn on the Upper LEFT Uniform Sleeve, is a very interesting study of Transitions. As a core group of technically trained Leaders & Members, the TeNo used symmetrical & geometrically shaped insignias, from 1932-1945.
The TeNo progressed through a series of 4 Different Armscheiben - “Logo / Emblem” Types, consisting of:
1) Type 1.0 - CIRCLE – 1932 - 1933
2) Type 2.0 - DIAMOND - (as a SQUARE rotated on a corner) – late 1933 – 1935. (But, allowed to be worn until 1937.)
3) Type 3.0 - TRIANGLE – 1935 - June 1, 1943 (the most Familiar pattern) – but continued to worn on Blue TeNo Uniforms, until May 8, 1945.
4) Type 4.0 - OVAL Police ‘Type’ Eagle - June 1, 1943 - May 8, 1945, (Officer & NCO/EM Models) to be worn on Only the TN-Police Green Uniform.
A study of TeNo Armscheibe Examples reveals that each of these 4 Types (except the Circle) had Variations (which included Different Makers [#’s 2, 3, 4] & Different Color Combinations [#’s 3-4], etc.) The Type 1.0 - Circle, ‘may’ also have had variations, but it is so rare – that I have Not been able to study it! There are probably Other Type Variations (of which I am Not aware) & seeing them would be Super – for learning even more about the diversity of the Armscheibe Types of TeNo!
[The words “Armscheibe” (i.e. Sleeve Disk) & “Ärmelabzeichen” (i.e. Sleeve Badge) are used in TN Literature & Charts - interchangeably, in describing these 4 Types of TeNo Upper LT. Sleeve Emblems. But, I could well be missing the True meaning, in proper German?]
Hopefully, it will be interesting to Review & Discuss these 4 Cloth TeNo Sleeve Armscheibe Types - & to Learn from other Collectors, & to Hopefully see Different (or ‘Previously Unknown’) Examples! I happily & collegially defer to those more knowledgeable than me, for Any needed Corrections, of ‘Wrong’ dates, etc., that I may use! I think that some help may definitely be needed!)
I will show Examples of the 4 TeNo Armscheibe Types, & their SubTypes – as well as Fotos of their ‘In Wear’ Use – where Fotos are available. … Txs, Dave/dblmed
Last edited by dblmed; 09-07-2009 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Sp