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Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

Article about: HPL2008: great answer. Some additional information: In the Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt, nr. 26 from June 21, 1937 with number 753 the uniform for doormen for the Luftkreiskommandos was descr

  1. #11

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    HPL2008: great answer. Some additional information:

    In the Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt, nr. 26 from June 21, 1937 with number 753 the uniform for doormen for the
    Luftkreiskommandos was described as:
    For doormen with the ranks Oberpförtner, Pförtner and Hifspförtner, as well as Fahrstuhlführer, serving at buildings
    for the Luftkreiskommandos, where a commanding general or commander had his office the complete uniform was described.

    The 10.0 cm armband was specifically mentioned to be from Abzeichentuch (Bordeauxrot) with in the middle the NSDAP
    eagle from matt-grey cotton, machinembroidered (page 330, c).
    Differences were mentioned with the same page with 13b):
    Oberpförtner an aluminum stripe (Aluminumtresse), about 2.0 mm from the upper and lower edge of the armband with a width of 10.0 mm;
    Pförtner at the lower edge a stripe from aluminum, also 10.0 mm wide;
    Hilfspförtner and elevator operators no stripes.
    The order from the Reich-minister was dated June 11, 1937 as L.D. Nr. 42177/37 IV, 3a.

    Also a uniform for the same functions, but serving at the Reichsluftfahrtministerium was introduced. Instead of the red, the color was mignorette-green.
    One should note that before 1937 the armband worn was 13.0 cm wide, made from grey-blue material and held the indication "Luftfahrtverwaltung" in matt
    grey cotton embroidery. At the edges the armband had a 2.0 mm piping from wine-red material (Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt, Nr. 29 from July 20, 1936.
    Pages 343-344, number 882: Dienstkleidung für Wächter und Pförtner). The armband (and visored cap) had to be worn when civil clothings were worn (order L.D.
    Nr. 41 158/36 II.Ang. IV 2b from the Reich-minister).

    With an order from August 30, 1937 the eagle form changed. The NSDAP eagle was to be replaced by the national eagle emblem of the state (Luftwaffen-
    Verordnungsblatt
    , Nr. 38 from September 6, 1937. Pages 496 and 497 mention with number 1149 the corrections). So.....the NSDAP eagle was only very
    shortly used.


    With the Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt, Nr. 28 from July 7, 1941 (pages 457 through 460) it was said that the old orders from 1936 and 1937 were put out
    of order with the date July 1, 1941.
    New specifications were given. The groups of doormen and elevator operators remained, but the group of buildings and commanders was more deeply specified.
    The armband had to be worn at the upper left arm of the tunic and winter great-coat (in fact largely as before). The colors were in German as bordeauxrot and
    resedagrün. The circle for the armband was 5.3 cm (in fact also as before). The stripe indications remained.
    (order Luftwaffenverwaltungsamt Az 64 d 24 Nr. 45354/41 4 II C from the Reich-minister).

    There were more announcements made, but all of these were related who had to pay of the uniform and/or insignia or at what buildings the uniform was to be worn.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    I forgot to include:
    One should note that before June 1937 guarding persons and doormen did wear an armband with a
    civil tunic from grey-blue material, 13.0 cm wide with the indication "Luftfahrtverwaltung" in matt grey
    embroidery. The armband was piped in red, 2.0 mm along upper and lower edge (also a visored cap
    was worn with civil). Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt, Nr. 29 from July 20, 1936. Pages 347-348 with
    number 882: Dienstbekleidung für Wächter und Pförtner (order from the Reich-minister from July 8,
    1936 as L.D. Nr. 41 158/36 II. Ang. IV. 2b).

    Another interesting fact for the shown armband: look at the stand for the eagle. The head looks to its right wing.
    The political eagle looked to its left wing and so in fact did the eagle for the Deutscher Luftsport-Verband
    and Deutsche Luftfahrt. The orders in the Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt did not tell to what side the eagle
    had to look!! But as it was said as: Hoheitszeichen der NSDAP . By this it is obvious to what wing the eagle had to look!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This last image is from the magazine "Luftsport", Nr. 5-1934 page 105.

    So, the question is: is the shown armband a good one?
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  4. #13

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    Took me awhile to find my old thread, but here is a visor and armband for a doorman/elevator operator:


    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/cloth-...fe-unit-15893/
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  5. #14

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    Here is the same style eagle, but worn on the midnight-blue background for an Airfield Fireman:
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  6. #15
    ?

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    The eagle on the cap posted by stonemint looks to its right wing, contrary to the magazine copies posted by Wilhelm Saris.
    Is it still a "good" armband ...??

  7. #16

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    The eagle on Stonemint's cap is the state eagle and not a political eagle. This is the eagle as mentioned in my post 11 and as introduced in August 1937,
    according the official order.

    The visored cap and armband are not from the same period, even if it looks like that. In my posts I do explain that first came the armband with the indication
    Luftfahrtverwaltung, replaced by the NSDAP eagle and from 1937 replaced by the state eagle. Maybe they were worn together as the related person may
    have had lack of money, but normally the personnel did not need to pay themselves for the item. It is possible he never replaced the armband for the correct
    form.

    I do no know if your armband is good, but the stand for the eagle's head is not! If the manufacturer made this mistake, is the question. The political eagle always did
    look to its left wing!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  8. #17

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here a photograph from a doorman (credit Pieter Roelse), wearing the cap as shown by Stonemint.
    I do have another photograph where a doorman is wearing the same cap, along with the armband with
    NSDAP eagle (pitily I am not able to show this photograph as I am not allowed to). It is thought the guy,
    wearing a great-coat, is from the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (so the cap band is greenish as is the armband).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This photograph from the DLV (credit: Bernd Wedeking) shows the use of the political eagle patch, as shown with
    the drawings from the magazines. Interesting to note is the branch-patch (Tätigkeitsabzeichen), a flaming bomb,
    for members from a "leichter und schwerer Luftabwehrsturm"). The eagle patch was worn also with other
    organizations, as for example the Reichsluftschutzbund.

    Note for Andrek: Checking again the eagle from the armband from post 1, I see this is NOT the political eagle, but
    indeed the state eagle and worn since 1937. After all the insignia is well made. I did not compare very well the wings and
    so the stand for the eagle's head is correct (looking to it's right wing)!! The tips for the NSDAP eagle are running into a point (so sharper)!

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    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  9. #18
    ?

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    Cool, I just measured the armband and it matches the directions in the Verordnungsblatt. The well-made construction made me wonder why anyone would fake something this obscure.
    Thanks for all the great research.

  10. #19

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    My pleasure Andrek, but you would be wondered what one can and did fake.
    It is quite easy to make such an armband and would not even cost a lot of money!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  11. #20

    Default Re: Dark burgundy armband with Luftwaffe eagle?

    I still have yet to see an RLM doorman/elevator operator visor in person. There is one in the Shutt book, but it is in black and white.

    The search (as always) goes on....
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

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