German pin badges - are these original?

**paulhermitage** · 01-07-2013, 08:11 PM

Hi,

I focus more on WW1/WW2 British and Commonwealth items, but I do pick up quite a lot of German items along the way that people have collected. I have a number of pin badges that were together, and since I have little knowledge of these items I was hoping somebody could comment on the originality of these items. The roundel badge (of which there were two) I have no idea on what they are. Many thanks in advance.

Photo's attached, hope it works!.

Kindest regards to all.

Paul

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 01-07-2013 08:11 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**thekid** · 01-07-2013, 09:15 PM

I'm not sure about the others but I'm pretty sure i heard that adolf hitler party badges are considered fantasy items.

All the best,
Stefan

**Greenhorn** · 01-08-2013, 03:53 AM

Hi Paul

Thank you for posting your items and welcome to the forum! The roundel, as you described it, I'm not familiar with and perhaps someone else may have something to share on them.

The British Friendship badge doesn't make much sense in that the countries were enemies. Assuming they were friends prior to the onset of war, the font doesn't look like other German fonts used and certainly not Deschler's font for badges produced 1938 and prior. The swas style is a similar style used on many fakes. Deschler made Golden Party Badges and the obverse of this badge is not on par of this makers quality. I believe this is a fantasy piece that never existed.

Ludendoff/Hitler badge is a bad fake. The enamel is very poor. Original Ludendorff/Hitler badges are rare and also from the early 1920's. During the 1920's, the reichszeugmeisterei (RZM) did not exist, hence the reverse markings are wrong for this badge, if it was an original.

Hitler 1933 badges did not exist. Adolf Hitler propaganda badges do exist and are also scarce. Simply, the RZM provided quality control for uniforms and materials not propaganda badges. An RZM stamp would never be seen on propaganda.

I hope this helps

Green

**HPL2008** · 01-08-2013, 07:48 AM

by Greenhorn

The British Friendship badge doesn't make much sense in that the countries were enemies. Assuming they were friends prior to the onset of war, the font doesn't look like other German fonts used and certainly not Deschler's font for badges produced 1938 and prior. The swas style is a similar style used on many fakes. Deschler made Golden Party Badges and the obverse of this badge is not on par of this makers quality. I believe this is a fantasy piece that never existed.

That's right. Allow me to add that the fakers did not even manage to get their German grammar right: In this case, it has to be BRITISCHE.

**Saladin** · 01-08-2013, 05:28 PM

Hello Paul,
The roundel badges actually look of good enough quality to be good badges. Is the white really yellow looking in hand as it is in the pictures? If so I would have a guess that it could be Freikorps related.
The other badges as mentioned are not genuine but are nice quality 60s reproductions. Not bad if you collect repro stuff.

All the best
Doug

**BOB COLEMAN** · 01-08-2013, 06:16 PM

Hello Paul-
Welcome to the Forum. i regret that your first post was not positive for you. We all get stung in this hobby. Thanks to the Internet, it happens less frequently as items can be vetted on our Forum. I was not aware of badges like this being made in the 60's as I have no recollection of these items at that time. It could be that they just had not crossed the Atlantic at that time. My guess would be late 70's due to the fact that in the 60's, there was far more original material on the market then there were collectors for same. Prices were much lower and I do not think that a selling price for these type of items at that time would warrent the expense of manufacture. I may be incorrect and it certainly would not be the first time.

**paulhermitage** · 01-08-2013, 10:24 PM

Hi all, thankyou for all your replies, I am not too surprised by the outcome. I pick these up as I go along always with British and commonweath items that I am interested in. They go into a box, I have a collection gathering dust, which I have uploaded pictures to here:

paul_hermitage's Library | Photobucket

I have a couple more coming in tomorrow.

The roundel badges are red yellow and black. For some reason the yellow looks white in photo's, but it is definately yellow. The only similar I have seen is the Belgian air force.

Best Regards

Paul

**Greenhorn** · 01-10-2013, 02:58 PM

by BOB COLEMAN

Hello Paul-
Welcome to the Forum. i regret that your first post was not positive for you. We all get stung in this hobby. Thanks to the Internet, it happens less frequently as items can be vetted on our Forum. I was not aware of badges like this being made in the 60's as I have no recollection of these items at that time. It could be that they just had not crossed the Atlantic at that time. My guess would be late 70's due to the fact that in the 60's, there was far more original material on the market then there were collectors for same. Prices were much lower and I do not think that a selling price for these type of items at that time would warrent the expense of manufacture. I may be incorrect and it certainly would not be the first time.

Mr. Coleman, Bob, if I may, it's a shame this hobby has been sullied in such a way that fakes are passed through hands over and over again. Collectors that have been in the hobby for decades, such as you, have seen the original influx of fakes into the hobby and at first you gents must have laughed about the fakes and later, took notice of them. My question is, (not expecting a definative answer) did nobody make a list of these fakes, in their area of collecting, that can be shared? Studying authentic items is the preferred option, but newer collectors cannot distinguish between authentic, fake, and fantasy items without learning from someone in the first place. Trying to open a line of conversation here and solicit your opinion. Please, no pressure to reply has been meant by my post.

Green/Mark

**BOB COLEMAN** · 01-10-2013, 04:32 PM

Prior to the Internet, the collecting community was far smaller. The fakes were always there but not in the abundance found today. Identification of fakes as discovered was a verbal thing passed down from collector to collector usually at collector shows. I do not know of anyone who actually compiled a list of fakes produced. What amazes me is that the most commonly found items are faked these days. My old friend Bob Hritz used to say, "when we explore the dark side of the moon, someone will likely find a black wound badge and a US 5th Army patch." Times and collecting have certainly changed!