Volksbund der Deutschen in Ungarn pin

[ado]

Hello, just bought this one from well known dealer in nice condition with no enamel damage and with accepted R.K. maker mark.

you don't see these pins come by very offen !
What do you guys think ?

Thanks
Ado

[Adrian]

It's an interesting badge, I've never seen one like it before so can't comment on authenticity.
I'll move it to the non combat section of the forum.

[Greenhorn]

Hi Ado

Well you asked what we think. If I may give my imput. Compared to the NSDAP badges I have, I have the following to say for the Hungarian badge. Early badges are well made albeit very crudely with minimal uniformity throughout all the makers and even within each company that made them, so your badge would not fit into comparison at all. Transitional badges 1933-5 showed better design and better uniformity but these are still quite crudely designed, although well made, and your badge would not compare with them. This leaves RZM period badges 1935-45. These badges are made with the most uniformity and control by the government. With all this government control around, these badges have many faults anyways! Please have a look through the badges listed in the "unofficial" Party badge thread and compare the fonts between each maker to find the contrast. Within each maker's badges, there are unique differences between badges and none are perfect or even remotely close! They are, in fact, well made and look uniform from afar but, under magnification or close scrutiny, the beautiful errors quickly show.

This leaves your Hungarian badge. Perfect enamel, perfect borders, perfectly spaced stippling, this is mostly ok but the most perfect of all is the font. The font should be the least perfect thing on badges. Dies for badges were hand made most of the time if not all of the time (someone please correct me if I'm incorrect). This Hungarian badge has letters that are perfect in width, spacing, and heigth. This is a big no no. This Hungarian badge would have no room in my collection, I'm afraid. Of course someone may come along and say I'm wrong but that's ok, because I stand with firm hypothesis in making this comparison to 40 NSDAP badges I own and most of them from the same era as this Hungarian badge. Perhaps the pictures can be enlarged and a better look may be had but, the lettering/font is a deadnuts fake-bell ringer to me.

I have seen these badges before and they are probably accepted by many as originals, especially this very design. There are other colors to these and I nearly bought one once but it was already sold. Now I'm glad it sold because I wouldn't want it after comparing to NSDAP badges. The disclaimer here is, I compared my badges to PICTURES of the Hungarian badge. I have not had one in hand. I would like some nice close-ups of the badge, if you would post or PM me with them.


The dealer you say is reputable.....remains reputable, whomever he is. He just isn't familiar with a certain aspect of WW2 badges.

If someone can give a thorough explanation to retort my findings, I'm all ears and eager to learn.

Ado, I hope my above comments do not offend as there is no interest for me to do that. In fact, I hope you collect many Party badges and post them. I have looked into these Hungarian badges before and came to the same conclusion. There may be originals out there but most are not, or I say not, in my opinion.

Hell, even Snyder has one for sale, just like this one.

Greenhorn

[ado]

On Snyder website the Hungarian pin like the one i posted is SOLD which should tell you something, and the green Hungarian just below is NOT SOLD which should also tell you something !!!

and if you read this below thread (post #4) you will see that for a long time only accepted Hungarian party badges are marked R.K. with red enamel
VOLKSBUND DER DEUTSCHEN IN UNGARN badge on eStand - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums


i hope some real experts will be able to give more explanation on these Hungarian party pins

[ado]

and here is some more support for these Hungarian pins marked with maker R.K. (post #3)
Volksbund der deutschen in Ungarn - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

[Greenhorn]

Ado

If I offended you, I'm sorry. Your last posts seem somewhat upset. The fact some sold and some didn't sell tells me that someone bought some bogus militaria and the rest will sell later! I did mention that this was my finding based on my research from comparison of my badges to PICTURES of the Hungarian badge. Post some close ups and we can get a better look. I hope the experts do come and set this straight but for me to believe it's authentic, I will have to be shown why and not simply told to believe.

I would be looking for factual evidence in study not support of the badge. I have looked at all 3 badges and they all have the same font, they are from the same warehouse. I downloaded the picture of your badge and tried to enlarge it but it was rather pixelated. I compared the Snyder badges and the font is exactly the same between the red and green badge. There may be an authentic badge with red enamel, but this isn't it.

I'm trying to give an educated (even if slightly) observation, not start an argument. Lets discuss this badge, I like the design and would like an original too.

Green

[ado]

another same one sold on Das Reich
Deutsche Volksgruppe Ungarn Member Lapel Pin

[ado]

and another same one marked R.K. sold by Collector's Guild
The Collector's Guild

[Greenhorn]

Ado

As long as you are happy. I know this badge is an accepted-as-original badge. I have laid the burden of proof down and would like someone to prove it wrong. I know I would want more proof than a sales report from a company. The link you posted has a pic of the Hungarian badge with the font that is exactly the same as yours and Snyders. Look at the Steinhauer & Luck badges posted on the "unofficial" Party badge thread and you will see soo many variations from St&L but yet there is only one style Hungarian badge all made by one maker and in one lot? You may not agree but aren't these logical questions to ponder?

If I had the ability to post pics, I would show you examples of what I am seeing.

Anyways, I will leave it alone now and wait for proof. I only wanted to help.

Green

[David North]

Dear Ado

I think that you know that I am not an enamel "specialist", however I just wanted to add a few personal observations to this extremely interesting thread.

What I would say though before I start blathering on is that if you are comfortable with this badge, then that is the most important feature. Aware as I am at the impending howls of derisory laughter, I have always advocated collecting with your heart rather than collecting with your head.

I do not and with all due respect, like this badge.

This R.K. marked enamel has been shown and validated on various forums so many times, has been displayed for sale on dealers sites so many times and of course, has been bought by collectors, so many times. It is almost as though this badge has always been present within the collecting community, although I think not and memory can play some strange tricks.

So, do we have proof that this badge actually existed and if so (possibly and why not), when was it produced and when was it worn? Why has a Sun Wheel swastika been chosen as the dominant and overt symbol? Is there a Germans in Hungary connection with this symbolism and again, possibly and why not?

It has though been suggested that this badge did actually exist and that it was made in very small numbers for of course, selected members of a relatively small community. Having said that, we see so many for sale! For such a rare badge, they appear to be both plentiful and relatively inexpensive.

In relation to the badge itself, the obverse execution is superb and actually in my opinion, too superb. The declaration font is rather too perfect for my liking and displays a clinically automated cut precision, lacking the usual signature of the hand craftsman toolmaker. Never before have I seen an original enamel with such a consistently uniform font.

Who is R.K.? Rudolf Karneth perhaps and if so (perhaps not), was not this company famous for manufacturing Wehrmacht combat awards? Perhaps someone could chime in here. I know that R.K. carried a late issue RZM M9 license, however why should a company not well known for enamel or "political" working, be chosen to produce this badge?

All in all and in my opinion, there are just too many unanswered questions about this badge to provide myself at least with any degree of comfort to support the theory that the example which started this thread, is original and period. I think not.

Regards and best wishes,

David