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Government/Diplomatic

Article about: This is my new Government officials buckle. It would be Government instead of Diplomatic Corp because the eagle is looking to it's left instead of it's right. You will find the same thing wi

  1. #21

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    Page 533 upper is possibly wrong buckle to a correct brocade.
    But who knows they took buckles from old stocks in the early period of
    wearing for officials.
    Here shown Reichsgesetzblatt from 1940 for state officials.
    It is obvious what the stand for the head should be?

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    The one you show with post 20 is a silver washed DLV officers
    from brass or likewise material.

    Just a part of the buckles and brocades from a friend. He has more
    of these diplomats and state officials buckles. How the brocades should
    look like is also described in regulations. The rarest is the one with the
    tiny golden stripes along the dark wider stripes (at right second from
    below).

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    Look the stand of the heads (not with all very well to see).
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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  3. #22
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    Thanks for posting your friends nice collection. The line drawing has the head facing the opposite direction of my buckle and the head is slightly raised on my buckle. I guess this is a hard buckle to truly classify. Government/Diplomatic/ DLV/RLB.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #23

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    Quote by kirby View Post
    The line drawing has the head facing the opposite direction of my buckle and the head is slightly raised on my buckle. I guess this is a hard buckle to truly classify. Government/Diplomatic/ DLV/RLB.
    The line drawing is an official drawing and your buckle is not at all hard to classify (see also below). It is NOT a government/diplomatic buckle (the upper one you show). The middle one was was never introduced for officials from the diplomatic corps and the lower one is an official about 1940-buckle for a governmental official.
    With special occasions a brocade was to be worn with two dark-blue stripes. Higher ranked officials did wear the same brocade, but with golden edged dark-blue stripes. This type of buckle was either in silver with a golden eagle in the middle, surrounded by laurel leaves. The highest ranks did wear a total golden version (Schwert und Spaten, nr. 5 from May 1939. Page 80; Uniformen-Markt, nr. 24 from December 15, 1939. P. 325. The thin golden stripes and golden eagle were not mentioned anymore in 1940). As mentioned preparations for uniforms started in 1938 (photo from my "Aiguillettes of the Third Reich").

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think the misunderstanding with these buckles is caused by the fact that authors write massive books about buckles, but have hardly or no knowledge of the actual uniform-regulations. Neither do they have proper knowledge about the stand for the head. A simple fact!

    From the permanent F.W.Assmann-catalogue here shown is addendum page 52c. Look at the title: Beamten und Diplomaten (state officials and diplomats). Only one type of buckle is shown and so used by both (state officials and diplomats).

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    The buckle - you show - is neither DLV or RLB, while a golden colored buckle is not mentioned in the early regulations. If they actually were worn in gold, then the group of wearer's was so small, they did not even mention it in the uniform-regulations:
    a) DLV - Bestimmungen über die Bekleidung des Deutschen Luftsport-Verbandes from October 1, 1935. Page 8 mentions: "mattweissem Schloss mit dem Hoheitszeichen" (so for the brocade). In an earlier post I told what your buckle actually is.
    Remind the NSDAP eagle symbol is an eagle which looks to its left wing. The uniforms for the DLV, as well as "Deutsche Luftfahrt" were protected by law as were the uniforms for SA, SS etc. since 1933;
    b) RLB - Bestimmungen über die Bekleidung des Reichsluftschutzbundes from March 7, 1934. Page 6 mentions " mattweissem Schloss mit Hoheitsabzeichen der NSDAP" (so for the brocade)! With the new regulation from November 27, 1935 it was noted buckle with the RLB-star (for the brocade). The type with the NSDAP eagle was actually abolished. In the March 1934 regulation must have been made a mistake, as it was literally said: oak-leaf wreath (and not laurel as what it was) I have not ever seen a leaflet or catalogue with such buckle with oak-leaves!!
    So, here is what is worn with the brocade. With the regular uniforms with both a matt-white double-claw was to be worn!
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 01-13-2016 at 11:55 AM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  5. #24
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    Thank you for all the information. Time to update my buckle list and put this in it's proper classification.

  6. #25

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    Hope I could help you in some ways, Kirby. I was pleased to do so!

    I think the time is ripe for the ultimate buckle reference. Someone in
    Germany is working with it! Hope it straightens what was done not
    correctly in the past.......If it is okay for 90% or more then it will be
    the final buckle reference. Hope I will see it some day!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  7. #26
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    A buddy just picked up this great looking Diplomatic brocade. Love to have it in my collection.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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