Unknown - WW2 German Buckle & Belt

[AlecH]

Hi Everyone,
Came across this German Belt & Buckle on offer at a auction house, do members know, what type it is and do they think its original? - Unfortunately I only have this picture.
Regards

[David North]

Alec

Appears to be a "Staatsforstbeamte" Koppelschloss. "National Forestry Service Officials" Buckle. Introduced in April 1938 and worn complete with a green leather strap.

Regards,

David

[pryagin]

That s right , I agree with David
Yury

[AlecH]

Hi David, Yury,
Thanks for your posts, Yury the back is the same as your picture. In my ignorance, I thought it was a fantasy buckle & belt someone had made up. Do either of your know, if there are any MM and stampings I should look out for on the buckle back. There was actually a total of three buckles & belts up for auction, all of which I regarded as fantasy pieces. If I may now be so bold, I'll post a picture of one of the others, this one I think is now a forester's parade belt the design is similar to one in the first picture,the buckle however is silver with a green striped silver belt. Again I only have this one picture. What do think? - the last one I'll post in another thread

[David North]

Alec, you are correct in your assumption that a brocade was introduced for certain members of the National Forestry Service Officials. This is not an organisation that I am overly familiar with, although I know that the brocade has a striking resemblance to that of the Army Officers.

From what I can gather, the brocade was available for those carrying a "leaders" ranks. I do not know where the leader status starts or finishes.

Possibly, certain ranks to include Landforstmeister and I THINK Oberforstmeister, Forstmeister, Forstassessor, Forstreferendar - wore a silver buckle.

Possibly certain ranks to include Oberlandforstmeister and I THINK Ministerialdirigent , Ministerialdirektor, Generalforstmeister and Reichsforstmeister - wore a gold buckle.

Regards,

David

[pryagin]

National Forestry official buckle in bright alu

[AlecH]

Hello Gentlemen,
David, I gather from your last post, the ranks would have the brown buckle & dark green belt. Higher ranks wore silver buckles, were their belts also dark green in every day use ? and for dress uniform were they silver with green stripes? The reason I ask after scouring a number of military forums on the internet, I managed to find, just one thread on WAF concerning Forester's Belts, it had a picture of a silver buckle on a dark green belt. The information on the thread followed the general lines of this one, but concentrated on officers silver buckles.
Digressing a little, a member of the local military collectors club, collects mainly forestry pieces (I meet him very occasionally ) in conversation with him, I mentioned the difficulty of collecting items from small specialized units, he maintained it was a large scale undertaking, involving tens of thousands of personal ( today, a third of Germany is still wooded) It seems strange, that ( if he's right) so little of the equipment, uniforms from this branch surfaces today?
Regards

[David North]

Alec

I really wish that I could add more of worth to this potentially quite interesting discussion, however the Reichsforstdienst buckle is quite simply not within my scope of collecting. I suppose that an awful lot depends on just how enthusiastic and focused someone is when it comes to researching and discovering uniform related literature and the like.

I personally think that Reichsforstdienst is grossly under rated and not well considered and as such, details relating to their uniforms, rank system, the organisation per se and the like, is quite hard to find. What about the Luftwaffe and Heer association to the Reichsforstdienst and who had their own distinct uniform? What about the occupied eastern territory Reichsforstdienst and who again had their own distinct uniform?

A contributing member of this forum and personal friend of mine has in the past made some interesting comments about the organisation, albeit on another forum.

I am sure that this member would not mind if I repeat verbatim that these comments included "...Heer and Luftwaffe forestry members were Wehrmachtbeamte and as such, if of comparable officer rank, would wear the service's standard brocade...". "..up until 1938, the state forestry was organised at Land level (Prussia, Bavaria, Thuringia etc.), plus the Reichsnährstand also had its own. These got the round buckles with state insignia in 1934. The nazis (sic) strove to centralise every branch of the government executive at Reich level (see also police etc.), and this happened to the forestry in 1938, i.e. Reichsforstdienst. Then, the oval buckle with leather belt or brocade was introduced. Privatforstdienst, by the way, means forestry services of cities and other public law entities, not foresters privately employed by landowners...".

Regards,

David

[AlecH]

Hello David,
Thanks for your latest post. I think, in some ways its understandable the low level of interest and enthusiasm in the Reichsforstdienst, it has the overtones of civil organization who happened to wear uniforms. For me and I suspect other military collectors the "mystic" of the wehrmacht combat units is completely missing with the forestry organization. This missing mystic factor, also has a large bearing on the price of forestry items on offer, I came across a Heeres Forst Schirmütze complete with insignia, condition 2 on a dealers site with a price tag of 260 euro. Such a Schirmütze from a infantry, artillery, or other front line officer would have a price tag of at least double the Forst Schirmütze.
I placed a written bid at the auction, on the second silver belt buckle picture I posted, I was really after the first belt I posted, but the locking piece was missing. The auction took place on Friday afternoon, I'm going in tomorrow, too see how my bid fared. Let you know what they went for.
Best Wishes

[AlecH]

Hi,
I didn't get any of the forestry belts. The first posted brown buckle belt went for a total price of 147 euro. The second silver buckle belt (the one I posted and was after) went for a total of 184 euro, the other silver buckle belt I posted in another thread went for 147 euro. The prices paid surprise me, I agree all three were in excellent condition (although the brown belt had no the locking piece) seems there may be more collectors of TR forestry pieces out there than I thought.
Regards