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Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

Article about: Is this real? I know these are rare and the price on this one seems pretty low at 500 e.

  1. #11

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    I briefly owned a cased Zimmermann DKiS last year. I paid 4,200 Euros for it, but on receiving it there was a couple of serious issues that were not apparent at the time I paid for it. Firstly, the rivets securing the cross had been messed with, they had been 're-worked' with what appeared to be a screwdriver to tighten up the cross at sometime in the past. The Zimmermann crosses are notorious for having an audible 'rattle', and this one had been peined so as to stop this, leaving visible marks. This could lead a collector to thinking that the swastika had been replaced at sometime.

    Secondly, the case it came with had a silver cheat line around the lid, all very well some would think, but Zimmermann only ever issued DKiS's in the same case as a Deutsche Kreuz in Gold, with a gold leaf line around the top of the case, the only manufacturer known to do so. The cross was sold to me with the promise of a Detlev Niemann guarantee certificate to accompany it, this did not initially arrive with the award.

    Upon my raising my concerns on both the cross and the case with the dealer (who is a sponsor of this forum) he sent me the certificates, for there were in fact two, not one. The one confirming the originality of the cross had been mutilated, the value attributed to it by Niemann a couple of years before had been cut out of the certificate with a craft knife, there was no photo or mention of a case with it, just the cross. The second certificate was for the case alone, this was dated over a year apart from the cross's certificate showing an empty case and a value of 1,000 Euros. The ensemble was obviously a put together item and not original.

    For these reasons I decided to immeadiately return the award. The dealer prevaricated at first, but eventually agreed to honour his money back guarantee and I returned the item to him. In all, what with fluctuating currencies, insurance, paypal costs etc. I was out of pocket by around 100 Euros and I didn't receive my reimbursment for several (worrying) weeks, but eventually the dealer came good and paid up, no hard feelings, much to my relief.

    A while later he e-mailed me to say that the vendor on who's behalf he was selling the award for had refused to have it returned (he had already paid the guy, which I thought was naive) and was forced to sell it himself for a loss of over 1,000 Euros on what was the original asking price.

    This was a salutory lesson to me, but one well learnt, although the cross was original, in very good condition looking at the photo's, it had been buggered with. Also the case was not original to the award, making it worth far less than it was sold to me for. The dealer was unaware that the Zimmermann DKiS's were only ever supplied in gold award cases, a fact unique amongst the award manufacturers, and the defaced DN certificates damned the cross and case as not being an original ensemble.

    So, I guess I'm saying "Be careful out there", you could lose your shirt guys!!

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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  3. #12

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    Thanks for posting that Ned.

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  4. #13

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    Here's a few photo's of the DKiS that I took back in September, note the reverse side where you can see the rivets have been messed with.

    Regards, Ned.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #14

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    I can't make the images bigger?

  6. #15

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    It is listed as Steinhauer und Lück? I am not trying to bash the seller, but learn more about these pieces. Thanks for all the input! Knowledge is power!!!

    Regards,

    Sam

  7. #16

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    Quote by sam1chlt View Post
    It is listed as Steinhauer und Lück? I am not trying to bash the seller, but learn more about these pieces. Thanks for all the input! Knowledge is power!!!

    Regards,

    Sam
    I'm sorry Sam, what do you mean? I can assure you the cross in my photo's is a Zimmermann and it was stamped "20" on the inside of the pin. The hardware was most certainly not S&L. And where is it now listed, I'd be interested to see it again!

    Glenn, I'm sorry but I can't make them bigger as I don't know how, perhaps someone else here can help?

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  8. #17

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    Ned,
    Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about the one I posted on page 1 that is selling for 500 euros. That was part of the listing that it is an S & L.

    Sam

  9. #18

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    Just to clarify matters, here's the reverse showing the hardware set up and the "20" stamp. Once again sorry for the small size!

    Regards, Ned.

    Edit: The peining of the rivet on the left hand side is more visible on this pic.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by big ned; 01-14-2012 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Added info.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #19

    Default re: Deutsche Kreuz im Silber: Real?

    Quote by sam1chlt View Post
    Ned,
    Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about the one I posted on page 1 that is selling for 500 euros. That was part of the listing that it is an S & L.

    Sam
    Ahh! Gotcha now!! No worries Sam, all the best!
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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