Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Deutsches Kreuz/German Cross in gold cloth - opinions?

Article about: I've had quite a few of these in Army Luftwaffe and KM backings, and always felt comfortable with what to look for, however, this one has me wondering, there are a few "pointers" a

  1. #11

    Default

    last one
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1309069672640.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	37.7 KB 
ID:	898310  

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

    Default

    Hi Jonno,

    The notches around the date shield are a big problem if there's only 8 of 'em! I can only assume that it could be possible it has been replaced in the past with a spurious one as everything else seems to match in all details as far as I'm concerned, I can't see anything wrong there.... There's no possibility of the wreath being a Zimmermann one that's for certain, as the date shield never had any notches whatsoever around it, check any genuine Zimmermann or Klein cross to see this. As it stands I would have to say let it pass on the strength of this anomaly, something ain't right somewhere....

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #13

    Default

    Quote by John Brandon View Post
    last one
    No question, that's fake.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #14

    Default

    Here's two accepted originals. 13 notches as per the design type 2 used on all cloth DK's as far as is known.

    First one shows little sign of the double flaw, but it's there and can be put down to either a light strike or likely an earlier produced wreath that had the flaw but it hadn't started to develop as much as later examples.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DKIG CLOTH NO DATE FLAW..jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	204.2 KB 
ID:	898327

    And one that is clearly the same only with a more developed double flaw, but still original.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dkig cloth with date flaw..jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	205.4 KB 
ID:	898329

    And finally the date shield on your example, bearing no similarities whatsoever to those above.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dkig cloth fake.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	37.7 KB 
ID:	898330

    I still can't understand why the rest of the cross appears legit, there should be something that raises the alarm if it's fake, but I see nothing untoward other than the fake wreath....

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #15
    ?

    Default

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Here's two accepted originals. 13 notches as per the design type 2 used on all cloth DK's as far as is known.

    First one shows little sign of the double flaw, but it's there and can be put down to either a light strike or likely an earlier produced wreath that had the flaw but it hadn't started to develop as much as later examples.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DKIG CLOTH NO DATE FLAW..jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	204.2 KB 
ID:	898327

    And one that is clearly the same only with a more developed double flaw, but still original.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dkig cloth with date flaw..jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	205.4 KB 
ID:	898329

    And finally the date shield on your example, bearing no similarities whatsoever to those above.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dkig cloth fake.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	37.7 KB 
ID:	898330

    I still can't understand why the rest of the cross appears legit, there should be something that raises the alarm if it's fake, but I see nothing untoward other than the fake wreath....

    Regards, Ned.
    Nice thread... G
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    I'd rather be A "RaD Man than a Mad Man "

  7. #16

    Default

    Absolutely brilliant thread and descriptive work Ned.
    I have one or two of these crosses so it is something for me to do some study on.

    John if the one that started the thread is yours and is for sale please send a pm as I have quite an extensive (inadvertent) collection of repro stuff

    All the best
    Doug

  8. #17

    Default

    In case any more evidence is needed of the flawed '9', 13 notch wreath, here is my example...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8839.JPG 
Views:	26 
Size:	198.6 KB 
ID:	898563

  9. #18

    Default

    Quote by Saladin View Post
    Absolutely brilliant thread and descriptive work Ned.
    I have one or two of these crosses so it is something for me to do some study on.

    John if the one that started the thread is yours and is for sale please send a pm as I have quite an extensive (inadvertent) collection of repro stuff

    All the best
    Doug
    Doug
    It's not mine, although I have it in hand, it is one I've never been comfortable with since I first saw it, but I said I would "ask"

    For me, if I bought it, it was always going to be a hard sell. so back it will go, it wasn't a lot of money, but enough. And as Ned has pointed out, everything else about it seems legit, but the question is, why a fake wreath? One of those things I suppose,

  10. #19

    Default

    I've been looking around for a similar cloth cross with that fake wreath and eventually came across this one that was discussed and called fake on another forum a few years back; one of the respondants was Dietrich Maerz, author of the "DK Bible" who said: "I have never seen an example like this and I have some reservations. I don't think the wreath is ok and somehow the grey star looks off. Certainly not an example where I could say "original."

    Take note that the construction and materials used are slightly different and less convincing (the background cloth of the swastika, the misshapen grey starburst and the extra silver ray threads etc.). but lets concentrate on the wreath.

    It's exactly the same as on Jonno's cross, the 8 notches and the same odd looking digits that form the '1941' date. The exaggerated wings that border the shield are also identical and not seen on original Juncker wreaths on either cloth or metal DK's. Even the leaves and ribbon are wrong when compared to originals. Every detail is clear in these pic's below, it becomes screamingly obvious at a single glance.

    It's nice to be able to put this matter to rest, the wreath is 100% fake and that in turn negates any value in the cross even if the rest IS legitimate, which is now in doubt to put it mildly.....

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fake cloth dk 2.JPG 
Views:	36 
Size:	216.1 KB 
ID:	899123Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fake cloth dk 1.JPG 
Views:	35 
Size:	215.5 KB 
ID:	899124Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fake cloth dk 4.JPG 
Views:	34 
Size:	220.5 KB 
ID:	899125Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fake cloth dk 3.JPG 
Views:	43 
Size:	207.4 KB 
ID:	899126

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  11. #20

    Default

    Top class detective work there Ned!

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 05-19-2014, 11:36 AM
  2. DeutschesKreuzin order of teh german cross/gold/cloth opinions

    In Orders & Decorations of the Third Reich
    08-10-2011, 06:44 PM
  3. Deutsches Kreuz/German Cross in gold cloth - opinions?

    In Orders & Decorations of the Third Reich
    04-19-2010, 05:20 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •