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Fliegerschützenabzeichen badges : real or fakes?

Article about: Hi guys, I am currently looking for a gunner badge for my grandpa, who used to be on a Ju 88 at the i/NJG.5 Problem is, my budget is quite limited (less than 400€), and I have absolutely no

  1. #1

    Question Fliegerschützenabzeichen badges : real or fakes?

    Hi guys,

    I am currently looking for a gunner badge for my grandpa, who used to be on a Ju 88 at the i/NJG.5
    Problem is, my budget is quite limited (less than 400€), and I have absolutely no clue what is the real deal or not.
    I was adviced several dealers : point is not to damage anyone's reputation, but to get your feedbacks if you think the items I show you might be genuine, or not
    Dealer 1 (cheapest)
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    Dealer 2 (not cheap, but is doint heavy discounts, which makes me carreful)
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    Dealer 3
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    Thanks in advance for your help, I hope I am not abusive with three different requests in the same thread.
    Last edited by rbminis; 10-25-2015 at 07:41 PM.

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  3. #2

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    Both JMME badges look legitimate zinc/nickel silver hybrid ROAG examples to me, although the first one has a repaired hinge/pin and has lost all it's finish on the zinc wreath. The second one is much nicer unmessed with badge in my opinion, and worth more because of this. I believe the third badge is a fake. Better wait out for other replies on this though as I'm not as hot on these as I would like.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #3

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    Thanks a lot for you feedback ned, I really appreciate this

  5. #4

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    I agree with Ned.

    The first badge have also a new/repaired catch based on this pics. The second IMME badge is looking nice, with the correct catch also. The third badge it`s imo also a fake.

    KR
    Joe

  6. #5

    Default

    If you want a mint untouched Assmann, I have one for sale...
    in the classifieds section.
    Reduced !!! Cased ground assault badge!!! - Militaria Collectibles buy - sell at War Relics
    Last edited by rbminis; 10-25-2015 at 07:44 PM.

  7. #6

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    The third one is really unusual.
    I have not seen a copy like this one before.
    Look at the swastika it looks to be cut out all the way round...This is a first for me . I wish I could see an unedited picture of this one.

    Looking at the hardware on the back, there are similar examples used on FLL ROAG badges but the eagle looks to be more like a post war Souval or even a wartime Karneth (RK)

    Anyway back to original post...I would go for the second one...No controversy there it seems. It looks like the last of the line that was produced by Jmme and Sohn with the zinc wreath and buntmetal eagle

    All the best
    Doug

  8. #7

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    Quote by Saladin View Post
    The third one is really unusual.
    I have not seen a copy like this one before.
    Look at the swastika it looks to be cut out all the way round...This is a first for me . I wish I could see an unedited picture of this one.

    Looking at the hardware on the back, there are similar examples used on FLL ROAG badges but the eagle looks to be more like a post war Souval or even a wartime Karneth (RK)

    Anyway back to original post...I would go for the second one...No controversy there it seems. It looks like the last of the line that was produced by Jmme and Sohn with the zinc wreath and buntmetal eagle

    All the best
    Doug
    Hi Doug,

    I was doing a bit more researching and found that it's a reasonably common fake design that comes with a variety of different hardware set ups including the Souval "claw foot" catch and the design itself is a close copy of the original Souval post war ROAG badge that started appearing in the 60's and 70's.

    Here's the obverse side of another the same barring the cut out swastika.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  9. #8

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    Thanks for that input Ned,
    I had to just do some more research myself before answering originally as it had me stumped especially with the FLL attributed hardware..... and Linden's finishing leaves a lot to be desired sometimes.
    I spotted the claw fake and even though there are minute differences (more than likely down to the casting process) there has been a lot of finishing work done to the third badge.
    The swastika is cut out. If you look closely, it looks as though the Swastika has been cut out and then the hook applied over the cut edges?!
    Note that the outer edge of the wreath...particularly on the 'oak side' has a lot more detail than the one you posted.
    I really would like to have a look at that one in hand to see what work has been done on it to give it that more genuine feel.

    All the best
    Doug

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Hi Doug,

    I was doing a bit more researching and found that it's a reasonably common fake design that comes with a variety of different hardware set ups including the Souval "claw foot" catch and the design itself is a close copy of the original Souval post war ROAG badge that started appearing in the 60's and 70's.

    Here's the obverse side of another the same barring the cut out swastika.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Unmarked ROAG.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	286.7 KB 
ID:	897104

    Regards, Ned.
    I think a similar badge is listed in the WAF database as a so called flatback/greyback. Not a type i would like to own...it´s also listed as a questionable piece.

  11. #10

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    Hi, personally I like award 1 the best as I like pieces that have "been there and battered" a bit, but the more desirable one for most will be badge 2. Leon.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway

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