Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen. The Fleet War Badge. Opinions?

**rogge16** · 02-09-2013, 08:51 PM

Hey guys. I was hoping to get a few opinions on this badge. I'm considering placing this in the classifieds and wanted to be certain that there are no issues with it and all is ok. I've never been able to match it with a known maker, maybe one of you can.
Thanks for your help!

Luke

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 02-09-2013 08:51 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**youthcollector1** · 02-09-2013, 08:52 PM

Replaced catch and pin?

**rogge16** · 02-09-2013, 09:00 PM

A couple more pictures.
Thanks!

Luke

**Adrian** · 02-09-2013, 10:18 PM

The closest I can find is a Forster & Barth badge but I always thought badges from this maker had an inverted and indented V shape on the back. Unless they produced a flat back of course.

**Edit**

After a bit more research I believe this is an original badge by an unknown maker. This maker produced many Kriegsmarine badges all of which have a flat reverse.

They - wait for it - are known as 'the flat back' maker.

**rogge16** · 02-10-2013, 02:07 AM

Thank you gentlemen!
Adrian: Is it common to find the middle of these pins bent inward?

Luke

**Norm F** · 02-10-2013, 02:08 AM

Hi Guys,

Yes, as Adrian says, a typical badge of the "unknown flatback maker". No accident that it reminded Adrian of F&B since all the KM flatback badges share the same obverse design as the Pforzheim makers. Current theorizing includes a Pforzheim maker or perhaps Rettenmaier in nearby Schwäbisch-Gmund since some flatback GABs were once found with leftover post-war Rettenmaier stock, and the unusually shaped wide pin on the flatback U-Boat matches that on some Rettenmaier EK1s. There is a range in quality and the suspicion of continued post-war assembly and/or production (in the same manner as Souval), and interestingly Rettenmaier's business survived post-war, but nothing is known for sure. As such they are the most enigmatic and least desirable of KM badges (except for the controversial "Bacquevilles") although still worthy of collecting if one collects variants.

Best regards,
---Norm

**Norm F** · 02-10-2013, 02:12 AM

by rogge16

Is it common to find the middle of these pins bent inward?

Hi Luke,

No, I think that was just a random event. Here's an example of the "flatback" Minesweeper.

Best regards,
---Norm

**rogge16** · 02-10-2013, 02:15 AM

Hey Norm,
Thank you so much for the info. Very much appreciated!

Luke

**Adrian** · 02-10-2013, 02:19 AM

by rogge16

Thank you gentlemen!
Adrian: Is it common to find the middle of these pins bent inward?

Luke

Hi Luke,

It's not a 'normal' thing to find but a pin could be bent for any number of reasons from the wearer wanting to secure the badge to his uniform a bit better or to having something pressed against it in storage over the last 70 years or so. Pin/catch damage does occur because these are the weakest areas and more susceptible to being bent.

by Norm F

Hi Guys,

Yes, as Adrian says, a typical badge of the "unknown flatback maker". No accident that it reminded Adrian of F&B since all the KM flatback badges share the same obverse design as the Pforzheim makers. Current theorizing includes a Pforzheim maker or perhaps Rettenmaier in nearby Schwäbisch-Gmund since some flatback GABs were once found with leftover post-war Rettenmaier stock, and the unusually shaped wide pin on the flatback U-Boat matches that on some Rettenmaier EK1s. There is a range in quality and the suspicion of continued post-war assembly and/or production (in the same manner as Souval), and interestingly Rettenmaier's business survived post-war, but nothing is known for sure. As such they are the most enigmatic and least desirable of KM badges (except for the controversial "Bacquevilles") although still worthy of collecting if one collects variants.

Best regards,
---Norm

Thank you for the confirmation Norm and for the additional information.

Luke,

If you decide to place this one in the classifieds, Norm's observation about this variant being one of the least desirable should be reflected in the price. You won't get top dollar for it but if priced reasonably it will appeal to anyone wanting a representative example of this badge. I would also place a link to this thread in the sales ad so members can read the discussion.

**Norm F** · 02-10-2013, 02:26 AM

No problem.

Here's a comparison of a "flatback" U-Boat and a Rettenmaier L/59 marked EK1 showing the same hollow hinge and distinctive main pin. A similar pin was also used by Deschler, another name which sometimes comes up in the discussion of flatbacks although probably lower on the list.

Best regards,
---Norm