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Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

Article about: Hi H.C, first i want also say welcome here in the forum and thank you for posting your Heer para badge.I am only a collector of the Luftwaffe para badges.The real Heer paras are to expensive

  1. #21

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Hi H.C,

    first i want also say welcome here in the forum and thank you for posting your Heer para badge.I am only a collector of the Luftwaffe para badges.The real Heer paras are to expensive for me and nothing for my money pocket.

    Was your shown badge coming with papers out of a grouping?Coult you proof it,that it was really from a vet purchase?
    Were was the company of Meyer&Sohn and what shoult this stamp Meyer&Sohn Papa Hungary 1943.And also the silver stamp.Everybody knows that 900 means silver.Why it is stamped with 900 silber.

    Sorry,for me personal looks the badge not believable.The quality of the badge looks for me not good.It´s only my personal opinion,but i would spend no money for it.I know it gave private bought pieces......

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Having spent sometime on researching the manufacture of the private purchase silver Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen, I have come to a few conclusions that do not match with the badge shown by Humble Collector.

    They are:

    The Private Purchase Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen was only ever produced in .800 silver, not .900.

    There is no credible evidence anywhere to prove that the badge was made by any other company than Juncker, and not a single 'Jewellers Copy' has ever been found to be anything but fake.

    Out of the dozen or so genuine badges known to exist, all but four or five are engraved with the recipients name and regiment/battalion inscribed on the reverse.

    As all accepted Private Purchase Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen were made by the Juncker company, the engraving on the reverse was performed by hand by one skilled engraver in every case. No other inscribed badge has ever been found engraved by anyone other than this single man. (See examples of nearly all known genuine engraved badges to exist below, the script is unique in being identical on each one.)

    There have been many purported original PP Engraved Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen sold since the 1970's including so called 'Jewellers Copies' (Manion's sold several so described in the 70's-80's), but non have matched the above accepted criteria in most if any respects, ad have been discounted as bogus.

    I understand HC's reluctance to post his badges, but perhaps he was expecting there would be some serious contentions regarding anything he may have posted regarding PP Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen, engraved or not. The points made above are correct at this present time until any other evidence to the contrary can be proven.

    Regards, Ned.
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    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #23

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Hello Kradmelder, Thank you for the kind words. The pictures were taken in haste due to a small amount of peer pressure. Not the greatest quality.
    The reverse has Meyer & Sohn Papa 1943 .900 silber. I have a multitude of badges that are .900 hallmarked and .800 hallmarked. I was simply explaining what the engraving said on the reverse. Meyer & Sohn were a small jeweler from Czech. The piece was purchased from an 84yr old WW2
    vet from Germany. In fact I was very fortunate my cousin stumbled upon the collection, and I was able to get some very choice pieces. You have to have the badge in hand to see its real beauty! When someone sees something out of the ordinary ( especially in the collecting community) they are
    apprehensive. You have every right to be. However, This piece is right as rain. I have been collecting since age 8. When this stuff was reasonable! I wish I had papers for it. You know as well as I we cannot get papers for everything. Look at all the regalia that exchange hands without provenance.
    BTW I love the LW para badges also!

    Best, H.C.

  5. #24
    ?

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Ned is spot on with his synopsis.

    H.C., I'm sorry but everything points towards your badge not being a period made piece. From the details, the makers mark, the trimming outlines, the reverse set up, pretty much everything is wrong about it.

    Jewellers made pieces do exist but a small company in Czechoslovakia taking on such a piece I find a little strange. The cost of such a one off piece back then and made from precious metal would be quite astronomical for a soldier. The company would need to make more than just a few to make it worthwhile and yet the individual could've purchased one directly from the sole approved maker of these awards in Germany.
    The makers stamp I also find very bizarre. If this is a jewellers copy made during the war, why would they finish such a prestigious piece with a plain ordinary stamp in a modern font such as we would find today.

    Have you had the silver content of the metal tested? For such a valuable piece I would seriously consider getting it done.

    Unfortunately your badge flies in the face of all others and it makes no sense whatsoever. I urge you to post some more of your pieces to see what exactly what you do have.

  6. #25

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Thank you for your answer H.C.

    I think this piece is a question of believing.Have you shown this badge to Thomas M. Durante one time?I would say he is the man with the best knowing of this badges.It could be very interesting to hear his opinion of your badge.

    However,i would spend a lot´s of money only for a textbook Juncker Heer para like Ned have posted.I would be feel more comfortable with it.

    Regards
    Joachim

  7. #26

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Hi Ned, Thank you for your input. You are right to some degree. Junker did make the originals, and yes they were .800. They were not makers marked. Lets look at an example. A soldier qualifies for an award, and wants a copy or 2. He can present his award documentation to an established jeweler, goldsmith, and so on. He can have it engraved or get it in silver. It did not have to be from Junker. He had to have his soldbuch and proper documentation in order to get the badge made

    Regards, H.C.

    - - Updated - -

    Hi Ned, Thank you for your input. You are right to some degree. Junker did make the originals, and yes they were .800. They were not makers marked. Lets look at an example. A soldier qualifies for an award, and wants a copy or 2. He can present his award documentation to an established jeweler, goldsmith, and so on. He can have it engraved or get it in silver. It did not have to be from Junker. He had to have his soldbuch and proper documentation in order to get the badge made

    Regards, H.C.

  8. #27

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Hi Chaps,

    I'm not too sure on this one, it does bear an uncanny resemblance to the 43 pattern Feinzink type badge. There were two types of catch made, the flat wire and round wire, although the round wire's catch plate appears molded into the reverse of the badge whereas the flast wire doesn't. Both catches should be 'C' shaped to be original, if they're '?' shaped that's a fake.

    On the obverse, the beard on the eagle is typical on all type II badges whether Aluminium or Zinc. It also has the reinforced talon on the eagles foot that is also atypical of these type II awards. It could be argued that the soft detail is down to wear. I really don't know if it's good or bad, so best wait for other more informed opinions, as these are just things I have noticed by looking at a few badges.

    Below are a couple of original examples, including an excellent pic of the two different types of catches and catch plates.


    EDIT: Oh well, God loves a trier.....
    Regards, Ned.
    Hello All,
    Well I am glad that the badge I originally posted has caused such a decent debate and with lots of good information worth hanging on to.
    Getting back to the badge I popped on. I appreciate what you say Ned about the different types and pointing to the fact that there is a possibility that it could be a good type 2 zinc badge. With your information in mind I think the badge is a dud. The metal (bear in mind these are the only seller pictures I have) does not appear to be zinc and under magnification the back of the eagle looks to be brass underneath the silver plating.
    So am I grasping the information correctly, was this rare badge (apart from the obvious multitude of private purchase badges) only ever made in aluminium or zinc?

    Thanks for your fast input Adrian, Anubis, I am sure you are both correct and the badge is post war.

    Lovely private purchase pictures posted.

    All the best
    Doug

  9. #28

    Default Re: Heer Fallschirmjaeger Abzeichen for opinions

    Hi Doug,

    the starting badge in this thread is for me also a copy.Far away of a known original.

    Regards
    Joachim

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