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Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??

Article about: Hi guys, i can buy this Hilfskreuzer badge for 400 euros. Normally it is more expensive so my concerns are that ist is a fake. The seller send me only this two poor pictures.

  1. #1

    Default Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??

    Hi guys,

    i can buy this Hilfskreuzer badge for 400 euros. Normally it is more expensive so my concerns are that ist is a fake.

    The seller send me only this two poor pictures.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??   Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  

    Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??   Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  


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  3. #2

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    My Auxiliary Cruiser badge was a similar price - £400, but not in as nice condition as this.

    I've examined this badge - the reverse hardware (catch and pin) resembles Foerster & Barth mid-late war (these are un-marked badges attributed to this maker).
    However, the general design of the badge does not match this maker - this is very clear from the reverse.

    In fact, I've compared the silhouette on the reverse and i cannot find any badge it resembles.

    Nick

  4. #3

    Default

    Nico,

    Can you ask the seller to take some pictures of the badge without the armband background.. It distorts and takes away from the badge.. Which leads me to believe that this may be a fake.. Sellers will sometimes take photos of badges on a background such as the armband to distract from the actual item being sold...

    My eyes immediately wander to the armband...which distracts the buyer from the intended piece, the Auxiliary Cruiser badge,,, a ploy used by some to think that the item is authentic when pictured with another item, in this case the armband which may be real but not for sale....

    Smitty

  5. #4

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    Thank you for your answers.I will ask the seller for more pictures.

  6. #5

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    Here are more pictures. A friend said it could be a Rettemaier badge and it is not so good to buy it because Rettemaier has produced and sold these badges after the war.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??   Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  

    Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??   Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  


  7. #6

    Default

    Having looked again, it could be a Rettenmaier. It seems to have some similarities.
    Worth checking this thread also: Strange Kriegsabzeichen für Hilfskreuzer Marking

    As i've often said, we need Norm to comment!

    Nick

  8. #7
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Quote by HoundsTooth View Post
    As i've often said, we need Norm to comment!
    Or Martinw. He knows these very well
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  9. #8

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    It's a Rettenmeir variant with a circular catchplate.
    They are more commonly found with rectangular catchplates.

    But,the question remains,period or postwar ???

    Cheers,Martin.

  10. #9
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    Default

    Quote by martinw View Post
    It's a Rettenmeir variant with a circular catchplate.
    They are more commonly found with rectangular catchplates.

    But,the question remains,period or postwar ???

    Cheers,Martin.
    I agree completely with Martin's assessment. It's definitely the Rettenmaier obverse design but compared with the more common variant, this variant has much cruder hand-sawn interior cutouts, dark reverse finish, a round catch plate and is generally a thicker more massive planchet. Here are two more examples of this variant along with the one from the opening post to more easily view its features. They all have leftward opening catches (which is also a feature of many of the conventional Rettenmaier-attributed "flatbacks").

    The unanswerable question at this time is whether they're wartime or not; personally, I think they have the worst production values of all the Hilfskreuzer badges and I'm not fond of them, but I'm sure others may disagree.

    Best regards,
    ---Norm
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??   Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  

    Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  
    Last edited by Norm F; 10-22-2019 at 04:22 AM.

  11. #10
    ?

    Default

    There are thick planchet, crudely hand-cut variants of other Rettenmaier-attributed badges as well -- here are the Destroyer, Coastal Artillery and 1st pattern S-Boat equivalents from this series. Some have the rounded rectangular catch plates and others with the sharp-cornered narrow rectangular catch plates, but all seem to come from the same workshop.

    Best regards,
    ---Norm
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??   Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  

    Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??   Hilfskreuzer Abzeichen fake or real??  


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