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hilfskreuzer advice

Article about: hi guys. i have an opportunity to buy this badge from the ground. but i need your opinions if is it worth for 120eur/160usd. thanks for help. Jan

  1. #1

    Default hilfskreuzer advice

    hi guys. i have an opportunity to buy this badge from the ground. but i need your opinions if is it worth for 120eur/160usd. thanks for help. Jan

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  3. #2
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    Hi bacilko,

    I can't help you with value, but it's an interesting badge. It's the "unmarked F&B-design" zincer which is made from a sister die very close to the marked F&B badges. Martin W. has a very nice example of this type.

    Do you have any details about where and when it was dug up?

    Best regards,
    ---Norm

  4. #3

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    hi Norm. im affraid but everything what i know is thats a ground dug from Slowakia. theese badges are really expensive and i dont know if to save money for a nice jucker or other manufacturer or just buy cheap original in poor/fair condition...

  5. #4
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    Hi bacilko30,

    Well it's the type of badge we call "wartime compatible" in that it shows late wartime hardware and a style of production and finish that could be late wartime, but nobody knows for sure how to tell this apart from post-war assembly of leftover parts. In the past Martin has simply called these the "unmarked F&B" which gives them the benefit of the doubt and they may very well be wartime, but there are small die differences and sometimes unusual variations in finish so I still favour the open-ended description "wartime compatible F&B-design" which doesn't commit to the time of production.

    Best regards,
    ---Norm

  6. #5

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    you think that could be a postwar copy?

  7. #6

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    I honestly have no idea on this one, but I do find it interesting that it has been found "ground dug". Most unusual way to come across a KM award? Leon.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway

  8. #7
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    Hi Guys,

    Unfortunately, "ground-dug" provides no guarantee without strong provenance. Even some Staegemeir fakes can be found in "ground-dug" condition.

    I think many if not most may accept the badge in question as late wartime, but there will always be an unknown element. If wartime then it would likely be late wartime private purchase and not an award piece fulfilling an order from the Kriegsmarine. I would put it in the same category as a Souval "wartime compatible" piece or a "Rettenmaier-attributed" flatback piece or even a late war S&L zincer. All of these I call "wartime compatible", and without strong provenance for an individual example we can't be more specific. They're still collectible of course, but cheaper than unequivocally wartime pieces.

    Best regards,
    ---Norm

  9. #8

    Default

    IMO these are not postwar copies.

    At first i beleived them to late war needle pin variants by Foerster & Barth but the concensus now is that they are from sister dies and we refer to them as the unmarked F&B type,as mentioned by Norm.
    As to the maker,that is still unknown and it possibly could be F&B ??

    I have a couple of these needle pin variants and here is one in fine condition illustrated next to a known Foerster & Barth example.With the exception of the finish and the reverse hardware we can definately see the similarities in design between the two badges.

    Also,if it were me i would save my money for a more complete example,they are out there.

    However,it is nice to see a ground dug example of this type of badge.

    Regards,Martin.
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  10. #9

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    here are better photos...

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