Kriegsmarine U-Boot-kriegsabzeichen original or fake?

[Franjo Vuk]

Hi guys, this is my third attempt to buy this badge. Previous two were failures, both of them i have posted here, and it turns out that both of that badges were copies. So i hope this one is good, but that reverse set up looks strange, i have never seen hinge and pin like this on any original known to me, but that can be just some rare variant of it which i couldn't be able to find. What are your thoughts about this U-boot badge?
Best regards,
Franko

[Norm F]

That's a typical example of the so-called "French-made" U-boat badge. They're sometimes called "Bacqueville" or "Mourgeon" based upon unsubstantiated theories as to the maker, but in modern days the venerable company Bacqueville has repeatedly denied any involvement with them. Somewhat controversial, only about half of the collecting community consider these to be wartime (and that WAF poll was open to both collectors and dealers).

Whether wartime or not, they certainly were not official Kriegsmarine award pieces and were not worn by KM sailors. Two recurring anecdotal categories centre around several U.S.-vet bringbacks and the gradual post-war release from a former Paris navy administration depot. At best they were unofficial wartime production in France stored away until the war was over and at worst they were an elaborate post-war hoax. I say "elaboarate" because there are quite a range of "French-made" KM badges (U-Boat, Destroyer, S-Boat, Auxiliary Cruiser, Fleet badge, Coastal Artillery and the rare Minesweeper) and they're often consistently packaged in a brown patterned carton. No other fake KM badges exhibit such a wide-scale, consistent production and packaging standard.

They're certainly old and many current collectors have had them since at least 1970, and they've been around long enough that there have been reproductions made of them in turn. Some would say "reproductions of reproductions" but the jury is still out on the "original" versions.

Personally, I lean towards unofficial unissued wartime production that was never actually worn, but I'm open to any new evidence.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

BTW, it's easy to see to see why they could not be accepted as official awards. The eagle designs almost look like parodies of the German design - perhaps a type of passive-aggressive protest? For the u-boat the eagle head looks like Edward G. Robinson...

[Franjo Vuk]

Thanks Norm, this is very helpful, i am going to pass on this badge too. Sad but true, i obviously can't find good u-boot badge so far, but i''ll keep trying untill i do that.
Best regards, Franko

[Aldo]

This microscopic examination video of these badges shows them to be fake casts that have been accepted without any scientific basis. If you don't like the comedic aspect of the video just fast forward to the images and see for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAEKgiud9Y4&t=638s

[Norm F]

Thanks Aldo, for that link to Jo Rivett’s well-made study definitively proving cast production. Now the only thing remaining is to figure out more exactly when they were made.

There’s a parallel discussion in the KM forum on WAF.

Best regards,
—-Norm

[Aldo]

Norm, I think Jo alludes to the fact that they have been around since at least the 1970's. I don't know much about them but if I did intend to collect KM badges I would have avoided these anyway. I shy away from any items too far off the accepted parameters of identification. I don't even like those French made KM caps for coastal artillery and such. It just seems so easy to fake an item when you can chalk up the discrepancies to "Theater made" Field made" "French made" etc...... I collect German made because everything is rigorously accounted for and documented for an untrained eye like mine.

Cheers, Al

[Franjo Vuk]

I absolutely agree with you Aldo regarding that and I am also buying just German made items, everything else is unacceptable for me as well.
Best regards,
Franko

[Aldo]

Hello Franko, this is the only "French made/maid" I'm interested in:

Cheers, Al

[Franjo Vuk]

I cant help but agree with you Aldo.
Best regards,
Franko