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Narvik shield

Article about: I have a gut feeling this one is an original at least by the patinated looks of it. Please can anyone verify my thoughts. According to the seller it used to be part of the John Spiltstead co

  1. #41
    MAP
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    Quote by stakeside View Post
    MAP......I apologize for the fancy six-bit word CHORD. Print-outs of all four examples were made, and I drew a pencil line along the length of the shaft adjacent to the bore. Just like the INKA 11-13-2015, the anchor shaft pencil line slices through the bore of the propeller. The edge of the bore extends into the anchor shaft instead of being TANGENT. Thanks for sharing your image....Doug
    Still all Greek to me. I just can't visualize what you are saying. In comparing my/Inka's photo to the other I don't see a difference. Not you but me. All these big geometry words and concepts leave me light headed. Maybe I can ask my son's....

    Edit: Well maybe I see what you are saying. The bottom shaft of the anchor in Inka and my photos do intersect (8 bit word) the round shaft (5 bit word) that the blades of the propeller attach to but not in the other versions. That said, the top shaft of the anchor on all of them do, but to a different degree.

    Not conclusive proof of anything except that Inka and my Narvik photos are probably the same type vs the others ( i.e. apples to oranges. ) Not saying that the others are real/fake, just that they are different.
    Last edited by MAP; 10-22-2017 at 04:04 AM. Reason: clarification
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement Narvik shield
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #42

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    MAP.....I have never texted, much less touched a smart phone. I do not have bsiwula1 's expertise with the photos to draw, let's say, a red line along the length of the anchor shaft which has two long straight edges. In a crude way I made paper print-outs for myself and drew my pencil line along the anchor shaft edge closest to the two circles at the center of the propeller. The inner center circle forms the inside of the bore. This bore circle is not tangent but digs into the side of the shaft. For this reason I point out that your PERHAPS DEUMIER was probably made by the same manufacturer as INKA 11-13-2015. Other features mimic each other as well. They are not apples and oranges but indeed appear to be identical. You are the one to provoke the PERHAPS by saying....I think it was a type 1 Deumier.

    HOLY NARVIK....this inner bore does not even touch this anchor edge pencil line, but is shifted above this line. Hence, a different manufacturer. Other details are well defined yet very different from the two DEUMIER "twins".

    REAL STEEL #2.....this inner bore is TANGENT to the anchor edge pencil line, a third manufacturer.

    Consequently, four NARVIK images yet three manufacturers. I am not making any judgment on FAKE OR REAL, nor do I advocate using this crude method to identify other NARVIK in the chaos we are seeing in all the threads. In fact, I am trying my best to not hurt REAL STEEL 's feelings. It was enough to say that the details of his NARVIK were not crisp compared to the other two.

    However, it is a fact that the tooling leaves a unique FINGERPRINT. I am trying to focus on only these three manufacturers, not the countless others also asking for a decision on FAKE or Real. There is a shotgun blast of FAKES.

    Some of the other images (helmets and adlers in a different thread) I posted for discussion also have serious ? ? FAKE or REAL ?? considerations which I have documented by Opening Post member and date so expert members might give their two bits, four bits, six bits and eight bits to make a dollar.

    I apologize for having made a mountain out of a mole hill. My intentions were good.....a much humbled Doug.

  4. #43
    MAP
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    LoL!!! No worries. I was just trying to understand. I've edited my last sentence to make it more clear.

    "that Inka and my Narvik photos are probably the same type vs the others "
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  5. #44

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    Hi Doug
    I appreciate really not wanting to hurt my feelings but the reality is none of the four Navy Narviks are mine. I did own #1, I bought for $20 at a show because it looked nice (as a trinket). # three & four were bought by my friend, also knowing they were fake for about the same price.
    Shield #2..the zinc one was bought by my same friend at Max show 2016 & vetted by John T. & his mentor after an hour of investigating it by comparing it to known originals. I know John T very well & he would not steer me wrong nor my friend. They came to the conclusion it was original, that was good enough for my friend.

    In the collecting world, sometimes if there is an item with such "undocumented" info or limited provenance, if the item is deemed original & accepted by the collecting community that it is original, then we have to accept it as real. If we have two extremely experienced badge collectors deem it original, how can a person with limited knowledge & experience such as myself dispute them ? Either one takes their word for it, or walks away empty handed.

    Thanks for taking the time to get involved with this.
    David
    "When 10 men tell you you're drunk, you better lie down."
    " A relief to see a 'GOOD' helmet here"

  6. #45

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    Quote by real steel View Post
    Hi Doug
    I appreciate really not wanting to hurt my feelings but the reality is none of the four Navy Narviks are mine. I did own #1, I bought for $20 at a show because it looked nice (as a trinket). # three & four were bought by my friend, also knowing they were fake for about the same price.
    Shield #2..the zinc one was bought by my same friend at Max show 2016 & vetted by John T. & his mentor after an hour of investigating it by comparing it to known originals. I know John T very well & he would not steer me wrong nor my friend. They came to the conclusion it was original, that was good enough for my friend.

    In the collecting world, sometimes if there is an item with such "undocumented" info or limited provenance, if the item is deemed original & accepted by the collecting community that it is original, then we have to accept it as real. If we have two extremely experienced badge collectors deem it original, how can a person with limited knowledge & experience such as myself dispute them ? Either one takes their word for it, or walks away empty handed.

    Thanks for taking the time to get involved with this.
    David
    Absolutely and we'll stated! This thought process amongst his many other positive attributes is why I love having David here! Exactly what I m trying to convey. There's no definitive guideline to follow with these pieces, as I had unintentionally proven that with the addition multiple attached threads giving various opinions, citing numerous faults and supposed positive good points. Really it comes down to study discussion and consensus amongst the collector community after all we are the customer base as well as historians and preservationist, bottom line there's a vested interest here for all and conclusion/concensus is the desired outcome. Best regards

    Brian

  7. #46

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    Quote by bsiwula1 View Post
    Absolutely and we'll stated! This thought process amongst his many other positive attributes is why I love having David here! Exactly what I m trying to convey. There's no definitive guideline to follow with these pieces, as I had unintentionally proven that with the addition multiple attached threads giving various opinions, citing numerous faults and supposed positive good points. Really it comes down to study discussion and consensus amongst the collector community after all we are the customer base as well as historians and preservationist, bottom line there's a vested interest here for all and conclusion/concensus is the desired outcome. Best regards

    Brian
    Love having you here Brian too

    You bring "life" to this forum
    "When 10 men tell you you're drunk, you better lie down."
    " A relief to see a 'GOOD' helmet here"

  8. #47
    Jan
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    Today I got these two new photos from the seller. Sadly they were not much better than the first ones

    Best,

    Jan
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Narvik shield   Narvik shield  


  9. #48

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    Actually Jan they do help a little. The wreath and swas look better from these images, and also it's not the varient with the material between the head and wings I initially thought it was. It's still not a straight on shots so I cannot commit to the small or low 4 aspect of the award. I still like it however. Best regards.

    Brian

  10. #49

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    For a shield in such poor condition, i would not want the controversy that surrounds it and the DNA level research it is taking to prove it is real, why not wait for a choice example which is a known pattern and can be originality checked a lot easier ??

  11. #50

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    Then we would have nothing to do or talk about !! (LOL)

    I fully understand your thoughts. "When in doubt, don't buy"
    "When 10 men tell you you're drunk, you better lie down."
    " A relief to see a 'GOOD' helmet here"

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