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Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

Article about: I am new to collecting and this site, so hello everyone. I recently purchased a Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen. I went to several sources to learn about them (this one in

  1. #1
    Spud65
    ?

    Default Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    I am new to collecting and this site, so hello everyone. I recently purchased a Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen.
    I went to several sources to learn about them (this one included) and compared them to others I found on the web. The Beobachterabzeichen is a stunning Assman manufacture.
    I am fairly confident I made good choices, I could just use a little ''peace of mind'' on if I did ok, or some advice on where I went wrong if I didn't. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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    Last edited by Adrian; 06-21-2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason: To change to German terminology.

  2. # ADS
     

  3. #2
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    To be honest Spud, I'm not a fan or either badge so can't offer you much peace of mind.
    I've just spent some time researching both badges and I can't find an original that matches either example.
    There are many features and details on both badges that don't match known and accepted original examples from the details on the wreaths and the eagles to the hinge and catch setups.
    Can you show any originals you've found that compare favourably?

  4. #3
    Spud65
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    Hi Adrian. Thank you for the reply. Let's start with the Beobachter first.
    When I was researching, I found a reference to the materials used in the production of badges. I'm not sure where I read it, but the gist of it was this: The hinges, pins, and catches were made by outside vendors and supplied to the manufacturer. While the mfgr had a prefered vendor or hardware style, their products weren't always available and they had to make do with what was. Was this a common or rare occurrence? This is why I thought perhaps the back looked ok.
    That being said, I searched for Assman badges with one or all characteristics of my Beobachter's hardware. Not all are Beobachtern, but they are Assmans. Am I wrong for assuming they would use the same hardware for different badges?
    Most of these pics are from German War Booty's archives page, the first pic came from Craig Gottlieb Militaria. I'm not sure if they are all originals or not.
    Also, the left wingtip bothers me a little, but I've seen it on other maker's styles. Reason for concern?
    I am at work right now, but I will try to respond to the rest this evening. Thanks again.
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    Last edited by Spud65; 06-21-2010 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Mention the wingtip.

  5. #4
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    Thanks for that Spud.
    Here is a what I would call a textbook Assman Observer. I've pointed out a few things to check against your badge.
    The number of laurel leaves showing at top left before they disappear behing the wing.
    Eagle facial features.
    The talons, especially the claw pointed out.
    The tip of the right wing.
    The laurel berries on the left of the wreath, I've only pointed out a couple, they're much more pronounced on your badge, as are the oakleaves and acorns.

    I've also used your pic of the hinge on your badge. Note on your badge the hinge is sat on a pedestal, the other Assman examples you posted dont, the hinge barrel is soldered directly to the badge. Also note the cut marks on the edge of the wreath.

    I may be completely wrong and I hope I am but my initial observations don't leave me with a good feeling about yours compared to other known originals.
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  6. #5
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    Here's an observation from the Airgunner badge - the maker mark.
    Below is a pic of the maker mark from Spud's badge, an original in the middle and a known fake style at the bottom.
    IMO the top and bottom marks are the same, albeit one is stamped heavily at the bottom. Note in particular the 'E' in JMME - exactly the same. The tops of the 'M's are squared on the original and rounded on the fake makers mark.

    See what you think - hopefully some others will add their thoughts too.
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  7. #6
    Spud65
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    Many thanks for the help Adrian. That's quite amazing how some of those "subtle" differences seem so obvious when pointed out.
    Fortunately, the Fliegerschützen wasn't very expensive. That damned Beobachter cost me about 1/3 of a decent stahlhelm though. Maybe I should stick with that.....Nah!!!! Lesson learned, I'll try again.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    Adrian,I am impressed and I don't even collect medals

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    Please don't take just my word for it, I'm learning the badges as I'm going so am open to correction. Please compare the features I've noted to other badges and judge for yourself. If you think I'm correct in my thoughts I hope you can get your money back.
    Don't let it put you off, we've all been there and all made mistakes. If in doubt - ask. The Observer badges command a premium price and fakes of these are becoming better and better so it's always worth posting any potential purchases before you spend your hard earned cash and then have to fight to get it back.
    Decent and honest dealers won't mind holding a badge for you while you get it checked out.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    spud...from which auction did you purchase these badges from?>.Robert

  11. #10
    Spud65
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions needed on Luftwaffe Beobachterabzeichen and a Fliegerschützenabzeichen..

    It was Echoes of Glory Firearms & Militaria, Virginia Bch, Va and Ready Auction House, Anaheim, Ca.

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