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Ribbon Width for SS-Dienstauszeichnung 3.Stufe (8 Jahre)

Article about: I was hoping some of you guys might be able to clear this up for me... I'm trying to get a definitive answer on how wide the cornflower blue ribbon for the SS 8-year service medal is suppose

  1. #1

    Default Ribbon Width for SS-Dienstauszeichnung 3.Stufe (8 Jahre)

    I was hoping some of you guys might be able to clear this up for me... I'm trying to get a definitive answer on how wide the cornflower blue ribbon for the SS 8-year service medal is supposed to be. I was under the impression that these medals were issued with 35mm ribbons, but I have seen a number of authentic medals with what appear to be 30mm ribbons attached to them. I have since been told that it was acceptable to use a variety of different widths for these SS service medals, ranging from 30mm to 37mm. So, which is it? Have all these ribbons been added after the fact, or was this medal sometimes issued with a 30mm ribbon, as well? I have included a picture of one of these authentic medals (a type 2 variant) with a 30mm ribbon, as a reference. Thanks for your help!

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  3. #2

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    It's my understanding that standard long service medals were 32mm and SS ones were 35mm although the use of either types were acceptable. The 12 and 25 year medals had 50 mm wide ribbons, and those used for parade mounting were doubled, a length either side of the medal, and as such were a narrower 25mm.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #3

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    Ned, could it be 30mm instead of 32mm? Here is a price guide from 1944 that someone showed me. It lists 30mm ribbon, but not 32mm... I recall that some collectors have measured their Heer service medal ribbons and have reported a width of 30mm.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #4

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    I thought the 32mm ribbons were usually found on Wehrmacht/Heer long service awards and possibly on others such as RAD and civil types but I can't be 100% so best wait for other replies. Whether 30, 32 or 35mm wide ribbons, regardless of official regulations I can easily imagine it was a case of whatever could be found at the time would be made to work.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #5

    Default

    The above list is from issue no. 11/1944 of the Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift.

    I can't comment on the 30/32/35 mm question when it comes to the SS long service awards, but there was certainly another width: 50 mm, which was intended for medal bar mounts.

    Also, the different widths were not only dependant on the specific decoration, but also on the ribbon's intended purpose, so that a variety of different width medal ribbons were available for the same decoration. For illustration, I can mostly provide examples for ribbon bars and civilian lapel bows/-rolls:


    • 8 mm was for ribbon bows [Bandschleifen] with 1 decoration and for ribbon rolls [Bandrollen] with 3 decorations*.
    • 10 mm was for ribbon bows [Bandschleifen] with 1 decoration.
    • 15 mm was for ribbon rolls [Bandrollen] with 2 decorations* and for Feldschnallen [ribbon bars] with 2 - 10 decorations.
    • 25 mm was for ribbon rolls [Bandrollen] with 1 decoration* and for Feldschnallen [ribbon bars] with 1 - 2 decorations.
    • 30 mm was for Feldschnallen [ribbon bars] with 1 decoration.
    • 50 mm was for mounting ribbons with embroidered symbols such as the national insigne or the Sigrunen**.


    The above is the final system as per official regulations, but as Ned said, no doubt unofficial practices and variants occurred.

    *) Maximum widths for ribbon rolls were: For 1 decoration 25 mm (25 mm ribbon), for 2 decorations 30 mm (15 mm ribbons) and for 3 decorations 25 mm (8 mm ribbons).

    **) When mounting these, the ribbons were not curved into a loop so as to avoid slanting of the embroidered symbols. Instead, a wider ribbon was used that was slit at the bottom and folded/sewn in such a way to create a similiar appearence to those mounted in the regular looped style.


    Sources:
    Die Auszeichnungen des Großdeutschen Reiches. Orden, Ehrenzeichen, Abzeichen by Dr. Heinrich Doehle (5th and final edition 1945)
    Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift no. 11/1944
    Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift no. 12/1944

  7. #6

    Default

    Thanks, HPL! Well, after doing a fairly extensive search, I've noticed that most of the authentic medals I've seen seem to have ribbons narrower than 35mm... Here are some pictures:

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    Each of these authentic medals has a ribbon width of 30mm-32mm. There are other examples out there, as well. I determined the width of the ribbons using this formula, taking into account the fact that these service medals are about 38mm in diameter:

    (38 mm)*(width, in pixels, of medal at widest point) = (X mm)*(width, in pixels, of ribbon at widest point)

    If we solve for X based on a picture that wasn't taken at an extreme angle, we get a fairly accurate value for the width of the ribbon.
    Last edited by daveward; 02-24-2015 at 01:24 AM.

  8. #7

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    It's always been my understanding that the SS medals used a 35mm cornflower blue woven ribbon. Here is a decent site for the specifications of the SS awards. "AXIS & FOREIGN LEGION MILITARIA
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  9. #8

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    Yeah, I've seen the description on that site before, Wagriff. I guess I'm just trying to wrap my mind around how so many of these medals seem to have ribbons less than 35mm wide on them. I mean, there are countless photos of SS service medals belonging to members of this forum, as well as others, that show narrower ribbons. It seems illogical that all of these medals have had their ribbons replaced... If we could get a few of the members that own this ribbon to post their ribbon measurements, it might help us to clear this up!

  10. #9

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    These medals came, of course, in a case with the ribbon folded and unsewn. Most of these medals were never actually Worn, and when they were, they were quite often court mounted, so the original issue ribbon may well have been discarded. It could well be that the many of the narrower ribbons were married to them at a later date by who knows, simply to make them look nicer? But, as far as I've ever known, the 35mm ribbons are the proper width, and the several that I've had over the years were, indeed, 35mm. In fact, I just sold one recently, and it had the 35mm. The Ailsby site also lists 35mm for the ribbon width. Ailsby Collection: SS Long Service Medal and Cross's
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  11. #10

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    I have some concerns about the photos shown on the Ailsby site... They show this medal as an example of an authentic piece:

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    Is this not the same type of fake with the exaggerated thorns mentioned in the thread shown below?

    ss medal fur treue dienste 8....good or fake ?

    The details look very crude and the eyelet does not have a bevel on it...

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