RK Minensuchkriegsabzeichen, IAB, GAB, and two shields

**ObKrieger** · 08-31-2011, 10:26 AM

My last post of the night,

Could I please get your opinions on these items please? The Demjansk shield is magnetic and the Kuban is not. The Minensuch is my favorite and it is also the cheapest so I would appreciate as much info on it as possible. Adrian, perhaps you could assist me?

Thanks for your help guys. This forum really is wonderful.

Mo

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-31-2011 10:26 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Adrian** · 08-31-2011, 07:30 PM

The Minesweeper looks good!

**Militiaman** · 08-31-2011, 08:11 PM

Hello,

The Demjansk is bad, and is known as the 6-log fake.

I also suspect the Kuban is bad, but it's difficult to be certain given the pics.

Kind regards,
Rob.

**Adrian** · 08-31-2011, 09:31 PM

by Militiaman

Hello,

The Demjansk is bad, and is known as the 6-log fake.
.
Kind regards,
Rob.

Rob, can you expand on that please? Having very little knowledge on shields it would be useful to know what a six log fake is. Obviously something to do with the log bunkers at the top of the shield but what exactly?

**Militiaman** · 08-31-2011, 09:43 PM

Sure thing!

Look at the stack of logs on the left bunker, inside closest to the swas. This stack should consist of 7-logs. Below is another example.

Kind regards,
Rob.

**Adrian** · 08-31-2011, 10:31 PM

Thanks for that Rob.

**ObKrieger** · 08-31-2011, 11:18 PM

You learn something new every day!

Honestly I'm not really too worried about the shields. The prices are at typical dealer level and I can wait for better priced examples. They are fake anyway as you gentlemen have pointed out. The IAB I could also live without as I have two examples already. However the GAB and particularly the Minesweeper both make me drool. The Minesweeper is $100 so I know I have a deal there.

Adrian, could you please give me some info about the maker and the material? Is an RK Minesweeper easier to find at a similar price in better condition? Forgive me, I'm still trying to learn how to tell what badges are made of.

Thanks for your opinions, guys! It means a lot!

Mo

**Adrian** · 08-31-2011, 11:31 PM

by ObKrieger

Adrian, could you please give me some info about the maker and the material? Is an RK Minesweeper easier to find at a similar price in better condition? Forgive me, I'm still trying to learn how to tell what badges are made of.

Rudolf Karneth minesweepers are fairly common, especially in zinc such as the one above. The gilt finish on this one has survived very well and I think $100 is a good price to pay for this example (no harm in trying for a bit lower though). If you do get it, please post some better pics, and particularly of the makers mark which is obscured by the pin. You can tell this one is zinc by the colour of the base material, note the water spout and sea, the silver finish has been absorbed by the metal leaving it exposed. Also, the hinge and catch are cast as an integral part of the badge because it was easier to this than solder these parts on afterwards. Zinc doesn't take solder very well which is why on most zinc badges you will find the catch attached to a seperate base plate to give a greater surface area to bond to. On tombak badges, the hinge and catches can be soldered directly to the reverse.
I have a tombak Karneth but not a zinc which I've posted here, a search should find it easily.

**ObKrieger** · 08-31-2011, 11:55 PM

by Adrian

Rudolf Karneth minesweepers are fairly common, especially in zinc such as the one above. The gilt finish on this one has survived very well and I think $100 is a good price to pay for this example (no harm in trying for a bit lower though). If you do get it, please post some better pics, and particularly of the makers mark which is obscured by the pin. You can tell this one is zinc by the colour of the base material, note the water spout and sea, the silver finish has been absorbed by the metal leaving it exposed. Also, the hinge and catch are cast as an integral part of the badge because it was easier to this than solder these parts on afterwards. Zinc doesn't take solder very well which is why on most zinc badges you will find the catch attached to a seperate base plate to give a greater surface area to bond to. On tombak badges, the hinge and catches can be soldered directly to the reverse.
I have a tombak Karneth but not a zinc which I've posted here, a search should find it easily.

Thanks for your help, Adrian. So what exactly is tombak? Why and when did the Germans switch materials?

**Adrian** · 09-01-2011, 12:22 AM

by ObKrieger

Thanks for your help, Adrian. So what exactly is tombak? Why and when did the Germans switch materials?

No problem! OK, very basically, tombak or tombac is a brass alloy which contains copper and zinc (according to Wikipedia). It was mainly used in the early part of the war for the manufacture of awards. Tombak awards are very often higher quality than zinc produced items because of the base metal, the details were able to be struck crisper, the finish adhered better and as I mentioned previously, the reverse hardware could be attached directly to the reverse.
As the war progressed, the use of zinc became more common as the materials used to make the tombak alloy were in high demand for the war effort, zinc was much cheaper to use. I don't know when the changeover occured but something is telling me 1941 or 1942, maybe someone else can confirm?
Some makers who made zinc awards coated the zinc with a thin copper layer to help the finish coat and stick to the badge surface.
Here is a shot of some of my minesweepers, see if you can spot the zinc made badges..........