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SS-Dienstauszeichnung 3.Stufe (8 Jahre)

Article about: Here is an 8 year long service medal I have picked up. I don't see any problems with it but would like some other eyes to look it over. All comments and opinions welcomed. Thanks Steve

  1. #11

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    I would feel uncomfortable giving the last medal posted a thumbs up!
    I don't see the random linen pattern background?
    It may be my phone but I would be interested in other opinions.
    Is there any chance of better pictures Dan?


    Cheers
    Doug

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  3. #12

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    Quote by Saladin View Post
    I would feel uncomfortable giving the last medal posted a thumbs up!
    I don't see the random linen pattern background?
    It may be my phone but I would be interested in other opinions.
    Is there any chance of better pictures Dan?


    Cheers
    Doug
    the medal is not my property, is from a recognized dealer (Paul Hogle) clarify this point, the photos are extendable at the most, is just my humble point of view, do not play devil's advocate here, only I agree with the first comment I do not like the medal, I donīt would buy it

  4. #13

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    Thanks for the response Dan.....I've now had to go down to the office and open up the big computer.
    On my big screen you posted looks to be of a different type.
    I would be more than happy to add Steve's example to my collection (I think I only have a 4 year)

    Cheers
    Doug

  5. #14

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    Quote by Dan Miller View Post
    from my point of view, a fake, little detail of "8" and letters, especially umlauts and finishing medal, the ribbon also fake, comparing with a good one...
    Attachment 954458

    Dan
    Hi Dan,

    The example you show is a Type I SS 8 year medal, the one starting the thread is a Type II. Are you aware there are currently 2 accepted period makers, and both of these are shown above? That is the reason the two appear different, because they are....

    The one you show was for a time known as the 'Deschler Type' and the one at the start of the thread as the 'Petz & Lorenz (P&L) Type', but this has been since found to be unproven and so the nomenclature has changed, respectively to Type I and Type II.

    I am still happy that the medal first shown is a genuine Type II example, and the one you posted is a genuine (although rather worn) Type I.

    As there appears to be a difficulty here in telling one type from another, and whether they are genuine or not, then I would reluctantly suggest posting them on the "Other Forum" where the truth will quickly out.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #15

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    Quote by Saladin View Post
    Thanks for the response Dan.....I've now had to go down to the office and open up the big computer.
    On my big screen you posted looks to be of a different type.
    I would be more than happy to add Steve's example to my collection (I think I only have a 4 year)

    Cheers
    Doug
    At last although belatedly, ....reason.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  7. #16

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    Ned-you researched these awards quite extensively-could you take a look at the areas I've circled and see what you think? I've had more than a couple of these medals and am unfamiliar with the blobby feet on the letters circled and the "spikey" runes. Are these normal to find like this? There are a few other oddities such as the halo around the left umlaut and the doubling of some of the other letters, but, as I said, I can't say that I've seen this on others. Under high magnification, the metal looks awfully porous-almost tempting to wonder if it is Cast...

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    Last edited by Wagriff; 04-17-2016 at 10:41 AM.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  8. #17

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    comparing
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ID:	954724 with another one, a good one... check the details vs the other medal...
    Dan

  9. #18

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Ned-you researched these awards quite extensively-could you take a look at the areas I've circled and see what you think? I've had more than a couple of these medals and am unfamiliar with the blobby feet on the letters circled and the "spikey" runes. Are these normal to find like this? There are a few other oddities such as the halo around the left umlaut and the doubling of some of the other letters, but, as I said, I can't say that I've seen this on others. Under high magnification, the metal looks awfully porous-almost tempting to wonder if it is Cast...

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    Hi William,

    You make some good points, and I'll try to address them as best I can. Firstly, the overall "blobby" appearance of the lettering, specifically the serifs on the tips of the letters. To me they are merely worn, and this has dulled the sharpness of the font used for the dedication. I understand more than most that the often "soft" appearance of such details is a sign of a cast fake, but I can't see any real red flags on any part of the medal that concerns me really, all the details look right to me.

    Another possibility I have considered is it might possibly be a double strike/misaligned die tool, which is not unheard of and could be a clue as to the flattening of the letters, but I'm happier with the "well worn" theory as it stands.

    Regarding the "halo" around the umlaut, that is found on original Type II medals and is not a concern for me. See the area highlighted here:

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    And is also found to a more pronounced extent on the type I:

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    The rust seen also isn't an issue, it's often found on genuine examples of this award, as seen here on this Type I:

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    The assumed porosity, if it actually is, could be down to a number of reasons, the way it was stored, the quality of the base alloy, the temperature of the base material when it was die stamped, even the clarity of the photo's..., I'm not too worried about that either when looking at the medal in all it's details.

    What I will say, (and this is putting my reputation regarding this award on the line somewhat), is that all the fine details of design and it's overall appearance make me convinced it's good. Others may think differently, but I would like to see proof that it is bad, and that is so far lacking on this thread.

    Quote by Dan Miller View Post
    comparing
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ID:	954724 with another one, a good one... check the details vs the other medal...
    Dan
    Hi Dan,

    You're confusing me now mate.

    1. Are you saying that the Type II medal originally posted by Steve (No1canuck) is fake? If so, the one you showed as evidence of this was in fact a Type I design, and therefore it is not any use for comparisons I'm afraid.

    2. The second medal you show from eMedals is also a Type I design. Are you using that to say the previous example you posted from Lakesidetrader is a fake, or that again, the one originally posted at the top of this thread is bad???

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Regards to both, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #19

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    Hi Ned, I did also think of the possibility of a double strike, and when you look around at several of the letters it is more pronounced and looks likely. I don't care for the condition of the serifs on the letters-particularly the "R"s, but as you said, this could be attributed to wear or even worn dies. Reading over the reasoning, it could well be a genuine piece that was made late in the process from worn dies. Not necessarily 100% sure on it, but I can definitely see what you are saying. Fortunately, the 8 year medals are not all that hard to find and with original ribbons too, so I would still have to recommend passing on this one in any case. There are plenty of these out there and in much crisper condition. Definitely, though, an interesting topic! Thanks for the response,Ned!
    Last edited by Wagriff; 04-18-2016 at 07:31 AM.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  11. #20

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Hi Ned, I did also think of the possibility of a double strike, and when you look around at several of the letters it is more pronounced and looks likely. I don't care for the condition of the serifs on the letters-particularly the "R"s, but as you said, this could be attributed to wear or even worn dies. Reading over the reasoning, it could well be a genuine piece that was made late in the process from worn dies. Not necessarily 100% sure on it, but I can definitely see what you are saying. Fortunately, the 8 year medals are not all that hard to find and with original ribbons too, so I would still have to recommend passing on this one in any case. There are plenty of these out there and in much crisper condition. Definitely, though, an interesting topic!
    The worn die theory is also a point in fact, may be that could be part of the issue? As you say, there's no shortage of these, but in this case I believe it's already in Steve's possession. It might be worth him asking for opinions "elsewhere" as to the medals veracity, as they are a bit thin on the ground here and there's some confusion in a few of the replies that are clouding the issue. I may be wrong in my assessment, and am prepared to be shot down over it, but sometimes you just have to go with what your gut tells you.

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Thanks for the response,Ned!
    No problem, I'm here all week......Try the veal.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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