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Vaulted Silber Mutterkreuz and all the research that goes with it!

Article about: Hello All, I considered going down the route of doing an in depth study of the 2nd Pattern German Mothers Cross with a view to determining the maker by the construction of the cross using in

  1. #41

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    Great pictures Ralph. Thank you very much.
    The Deumer gold and Fechler bronze do have similar but different backgrounds.
    There are some details that show up as quite different in magnification.
    The roundel has a quite flattened font on the Deumer.

    I am trying to rig up a photo cube where I can get some detailed background shots without any light reflection on the surface of the enamel and I will be able to show the types of background.
    I am currently giving them a simplified terminology like...Pebble, Rice Grain, Blown sand, mud, sand etc so at least I can start working out just how many makers there were.

    I added one more maker yesterday, F&R in a bronze so I am up to 71 so far.



    All the best
    Doug

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  3. #42

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    Hello All,
    I'm still struggling to get good pi of the pattern beneath the enamels.
    Here are two full size picked up at the Brecon military fair today.
    A boxed Gold by Ochs and Bonn in Hanau and a devastated bronze but which is an ideal candidate for de constructing in the name of research.



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    I must admit this bronze was the favourite of the 2. The hallmarked silver watch chain looks to have been attached for some time. The gold was nice as it came along with an L/11 marked silver miniature


    All the best
    Doug

  4. #43

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    Hello Doug

    Here is the only cased Gold that I have. Hope this may be of assistance. Made by A. Rettenmaier.

    Steve
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  5. #44

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    Hi Steve
    the pictures are good thank you very much.
    I'll do a comparison with the one I have on file tomorrow which may give us an indication as to if this is a legitimate set or married up.
    These are the sort of pictures we need to start compiling a database of makers.

    Below is an example silver with a loose disc to show that it was soldered to the cross.

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    This may be how I have to photograph the crosses doing each individual arm......

    Still experimenting

  6. #45

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    Hello Doug,
    Here is an interesting couple of photos of one of my silver examples. I do not know who the maker is. Depending on how the light penetrates the blue enamel, it can have a different effect in the appearance of the "stippling" beneath it.
    They may all look similar until you view them larger.
    Ralph.

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    And the reverse.

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    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  7. #46

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    That's a nice crisp pattern Ralph and the signature looks quite fine so an earlier piece in my opinion.
    Thanks for posting that example.
    Excellent photography as usual

    All the best
    Doug

  8. #47

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    Quote by No1canuck View Post
    Hello Doug

    Here is the only cased Gold that I have. Hope this may be of assistance. Made by A. Rettenmaier.

    Steve
    Hi Steve,
    I have compared yours with the two Rettenmaiers I have on file and it is a perfect match so it looks as though we can now identify another one just by the background stippling.
    Thank you

    Doug

  9. #48

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    So I have been busy this week adding more research material to my collection of Mothers Crosses.

    What I have been finding is that gold crosses in boxes are far more plentiful than the silver and bronze examples in packets.


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    So what have I picked up of interest.
    2 bronze examples in Frank and Reif packets both with the same chocolate brown finish to them and both with the same pebble detail.
    That is quite refreshing as I would be quite confident in declaring that crosses with this design are made by that particular manufacturer.

    In amongst a bundle of loose crosses there were 3 minis. The bronze is stamped L/15 and the two silver are stamped L/60


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    3 damaged/denazified crosses that are candidates for deconstructing but looking at the picture I see that the silver is displaying the wording below the white plastic like covering so I may just try removing that before I go in to the china shop to see if the roundel is in fact complete.

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    I have a few more to come so will pop these on the thread.

    Anybody with any attributable Mothers crosses either in envelopes or boxes please feel free to post the pictures here.
    Nice clear shots of the detail beneath the blue glass enamel would be really helpful.

    All the best
    Doug

  10. #49

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    Hello Doug,
    I will add some photos of some of my minis later, some maker marked and some not.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  11. #50

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    Great, thanks Ralph.
    without a makers mark I am pretty sure that you would be unable to identify a maker of the minis.
    As you know there are quite a considerable number of different sizes of minis out there with a multitude variation of mounts.

    I am not seeing any half sized minis in my searching so I am assuming they have all gone in to collections or they weren't very popular for resale at the time?
    All the sizes are certainly displayed in a lot of makers period catalogues.

    All the best
    Doug

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