09-01-2016 02:03 PM
How are you spotting for fantasy/fakes and reproductions?
In reading other threads, I've come to think that two signs of a bad Ehrenkreuz der Deutschen Mutter are 1) Thick white border, and 2) Blunted spikes on the rays, mostly visible by viewing the reverse view.
For example, in the first post (OP) of this thread, in the third photo, there are two sleeves marked 554. The one on the left has a small white border compared to the one just below and to the right of it.
You had me wondering what you were talking about Retsiger but I understand now.
Let me clear up my numbering system first.
If I buy one item it gets it's own number but if I buy a collection of items they all get the same number. Some numbers have large quantities of items.
Okay reproduction crosses:
You are correct
Large white border.
Sunken enamel on the white border...even if it is a narrow border
Opaque Blue enamel.
Sunken black enamel on the swastika.
Raised lettering on the back
Made in zinc or other pot metal
Makers mark/stamps (No original has a stamp on it unless applied at a later date)
Misaligned central disc (There are a couple of originals I have seen where the disc has slipped but few and far between. Ralph posted one earlier in the thread)
Stunted rays in conjunction with any of the above (A couple of 'original' makers have short rays)
What you need to consider:
There are as far as I have identified to date 83 different manufacturers or sellers of these crosses in various grades.
I have to put this statement in as I do not know if one manufacturer was making crosses for other retail outlets which happened often and the retail outlet bagged or boxed up the crosses with their own names on.
I have names of 4 other makers of miniatures that I have not seen any evidence that they produced the large cross.
So in theory there would be at least 83 different moulds/variations of an original cross
So the variations are what I am studying in the hope that one day I will be able to identify the maker of a cross just by their own attributes.
The problems that commonly occur are for example the Reischauer crosses. I have 3 boxed examples in gold. Two have exactly the same pattern below the blue enamel whilst the 3rd is quite different.
The questions I have to ask are:
1 Are the 2 examples real Reischauer made crosses?
2 Is the odd cross a Reischauer?
3 Are any of them Reischauer crosses?
So to at least partly answer any of the questions I would need several other crosses boxed or in packets by Reischauer to do a comparison. Even if I can conclude that the 'majority' of crosses were made by them it would only be pure conjecture.
You have to remember that in the last 77 years odd crosses and packets would have been married together to form a set to increase their 'buyability' so it is difficult to say that a particular cross has been with that particular box/packet all it's life.
As I mention the study goes on!
All the best
By the way, there's a Reischauer on Hiscoll right now.
Thank you for the info.
Will you post the list of all the makers?
Last edited by Retsiger; 09-02-2016 at 01:29 PM.
Here's a reproduction I just found. The reasons why it might be a reproduction: It claims to be a repro, the blue isn't deep enough, it's an opaque substance, it has inconsistent lines, and there is a general lack of quality on the obverse. The reverse looks to be OK to me, but the color is a little light.
I'm also wondering if there is enough knowledge base yet to rule out pieces with certain features? I read one of the posts in this thread and it said the person knew of a manufacturer that was still making these crosses into the 70s. If so, how can we possibly know which ones are period pieces?
Update: Here is a thread that talks about the difficulties with in starting a catalog. GCA Forum | Mother Cross catalog
I am now of the opinion that unless a piece specifically states that it is a reproduction, there just isn't a way to know with a great degree of certainty that it is genuine or not, as compared with Parteiabzeichen or similar medals. The strength of the Mother's Cross is that because of its intricacies, it is cost prohibitive to reproduce with a great degree of consistency.
Open to thoughts...
Last edited by Retsiger; 09-02-2016 at 10:52 AM.
That was an excellent post. Thank you. Exactly what my brain was looking for along this line. Keep it coming if you can.
I agree with you about the attractiveness of the medal. It's entrancing.
Judging from comments in a different forum, I would not have thought this amount od deduction was possible.