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Zerstörer-Kriegsabzeichen Zinc Vertical Pin Unknown maker

Article about: More practice with the new lens This is one of the last awards I have had tucked away for many years before finding WRF. I have always been on the fence on this one as to originality, leanin

  1. #1
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    Default Zerstörer-Kriegsabzeichen Zinc Vertical Pin Unknown maker

    More practice with the new lens

    This is one of the last awards I have had tucked away for many years before finding WRF.

    I have always been on the fence on this one as to originality, leaning towards a fake.

    Unmarked, vertical pin, Zinc construction weighing in at around 22 grams

    I have not found an example on this forum to match but pictures have been shown to a well respected collector / dealer who gave it a tentative thumbs up as a late war (potentially Schwerin) award

    So what are everyone's thoughts?

    Michael

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    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

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  3. #2

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    Hi Michael, I would tend to agree with you that this one is fake but I am sure Martin or Norm will know for sure. For me it appears very poor in detail and the Adler looks lop sided with one wing thicker than the other? I would not have thought that a quality maker like Schwerin would have allowed this one through, even late in the war. That said, I like the finish and it is certainly does not look like the run of a mill cast? Leon.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway

  4. #3
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    Thanks Leon. This award along with a number of others (all KM or Luft) were all bought many years ago before I "knew better". All but 1 or 2 turned out to be fake. Hence my oft quoted draw full of "lessons". I got drawn to these given the attractive gilt finish. All that glitters is NOT gold I guess.

    I have since stayed away from KM and Luft (with the exception of a few Para's and Spanish Crosses") as I sharpen my skills on Heer awards. One day soon I will start adding KM and Luft awards as I'm almost full up in the Heer category...LoL!

    Anyway, I have no reference books on these and have never seen another like it on this forum or a few of the dealer websites.

    I hope it is a good one but have always had had it in my junk pile so no loss if it is not.

    I tried to take as detailed pictures as I could to help the experts with their decision.

    Thanks for your input.

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  5. #4

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    Possibly a late war "flatbck" example and now attributed to Alois Rettemeir.

    Opinions are up in the air on some of these badges as to whether they are late war or postwar.

    I think they are collectable and worth keeping.

    Regards,Martin.

  6. #5
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    Thank you Martin for the information. It is better news than I thought! So out of the box of shame and into the display case it goes!

    Regards,

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #6

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    As said, there has been much debate on these pieces. Personally, I would not have it. I don't care for the quality and tend to lean on the postwar opinion side.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  8. #7
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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    As said, there has been much debate on these pieces. Personally, I would not have it. I don't care for the quality and tend to lean on the postwar opinion side.
    Thanks William. Unfortunately I do "HAVE" it. So no getting rid of it at this point. Not many options. I won't sell in fear of it being passed off to an uneducated collector and I won't destroy it or mark it up as the jury is still out.

    So...for the time being, I would rather display it until I start building out my KM collection.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  9. #8

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    I agree 100% with Martin, previously known as the "flatback", this badge has now been linked to Rettenmaier, much as examples of the previously named "flatback" and "Rocky" PAB were after the discovery of a hoard of them in Rettenmaier packaging that had also at one time contained KM badges was discovered in an old LDO outlet on the Austrian border in 2013. The invoice that was found with them and listed the original content was dated 22nd July 1944.

    Alois Rettenmaier continued production more or less unimpeded after the war, (they are still in business today) and there is some evidence that a few "flatback" GAB's came to market around 10 years ago that originated from the factory as left over stock. The number of "flatback" badges, both Heer and KM that can be found with a variety of different hardware set ups and finishes could well be indicative of postwar assembly from possibly large stocks of badges once held by the company, much as was the case with both Steinhauer & Luck and Robert Souval (R.S.), long after hostilities ceased and the 3rd Reich was but a memory. This has not been proven as of yet, but is a possibility that cannot be ignored.

    Here's an example of another Zerstorer badge that has been deemed as made by Rettenmaier, it's the same as the one in the O.P.

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    1 & 2 Courtesy of Tim B. on WAF.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #9
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    Excellent information Ned. Thanks!
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  11. #10

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    I like to help if I can.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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