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Red Star w/ Research

Article about: I assume this is a Type 3 Red Star. The front looks kind of crude but any other opinions are welcome. Any issues with the documents? Thanks John

  1. #21
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    Fine detective work there, chaps..

    If I may veer off topic for a moment (with sincere apologies), this perfectly highlights my contempt for the arbitrary ‘type’ systems that are in irritatingly common use:

    Marcel: Btw, it is a Type 6 variant 6.2.

    32Artillery: I'd class it as a Type 3, option 2, variety 5.
    (“We are both on the money, just using different references”).

    We could all introduce our own type systems and end up with a complete mess, but all be content in their ‘correctness’.
    I understand the will (and indeed, the need) to differentiate and identify the many variations, but to me, without a logical and chronologically-based plan (or better still, documentary evidence of makers and dates), they are just arbitrary lists created by collectors/authors. As here, wildly conflicting and confusing the issue..

    Anyway, gripe over! Just had to vent it.
    Back on topic.. my apologies again.

    All the very best to all and stay well,
    Bob

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  3. #22

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    for clarity, when I say 'could go either way' I mean 99% it is long service, not 100%, not that it is 50/50....

  4. #23

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    More information on this Group:

    This MZPP Red Star was for long service. The Record Card, which shows the long service decree date 30 April 1947. The 3rd page of Yakovenko's Bravery Medal citation shows that his original recommendation for a Red Star was downgraded.

  5. #24

    Thumbs up More pictures

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    John

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  6. #25

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    John

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  7. #26

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    Translation of Record Card:

    Record Card

    Order Booklet 887779

    1. Last Name: Yakovenko
    2. First name and patronymic: Pyotr Dorofeevich
    3. Military rank: Lieutenant-Colonel
    4. Sex: Male
    5. Year of brith: 1911
    6. Place of Birth: city of Sevastopol, Borodinskaya Street 31
    7. Party membership: Member of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks since 1942
    8. Education: elementary
    9. Nationality: Russian
    10. In the Red Army since: May 1931
    11. Place of service (name of unit) and position occupied at the time of awarding: 772nd Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment, 35th Anti-Aircraft Division, 37th Army. Regiment commander.
    12. Place of service and position at the present time: 2512th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment, 19th Mechanized Division. Deputy commander of combat forces.
    13. Home address of the awardee: Kiev Oblast, Boyarka Station, Kievskaya Street 43

    [Page 2]

    14. List of all awards received

    [Table columns from left to right]
    Name of the Orders and Medals
    Their Numbers
    Document Numbers
    Basis for Awarding

    Medal For Bravery
    121892
    temporary certificate 163822
    Decree of the 47th Army #0589 of 01.12.1942

    Order of the Red Banner
    94674
    temporary certificate L [possibly “A”] 218798
    Decree of the 37th Army #0160/n of 06.11.1943

    Order of the Patriotic War 1st Class
    82125
    temporary certificate 404388
    Decree of the 37th Army #0161/n of 07.09.1944

    Medal For Combat Service
    2262154
    temporary certificate 191111
    Decree [of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet] of 03.11.1944

    [Medal] For the Defense of the Caucasus
    -
    temporary certificate A-038252
    Decree [of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet] of 01.05.1944

    Medal For Victory Over Germany
    -
    temporary certificate B-0105247
    Decree [of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet] of 09.05.1945

    [Order of the] Red Star
    2289372
    Order booklet 877779
    Decree [of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet] of 30.04.1947

    [Order of the] Red Banner
    411217
    -
    Decree [of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet] of 30.04.1954

    [Medal for the] 30th Anniversary of the Soviet Army and Navy
    -
    -
    -



    Signature of the awardee [signed]

    I affirm the accuracy of this information and the signature of the awardee
    Commander of the 2512th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Regiment Colonel Palshin [signed & stamped]

    24 October, 1946

  8. #27
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    I think it's pretty clear that the Red Star is a long service award from 1947, which doesn't have a citation. The citations you posted are for his Medal for Courage (a Red Star recommendation that was subsequently downgraded) from December 1942 and his Red Banner from December 1943.

  9. #28
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    Quote by Kohima View Post
    If I may veer off topic for a moment (with sincere apologies), this perfectly highlights my contempt for the arbitrary ‘type’ systems that are in irritatingly common use:

    Marcel: Btw, it is a Type 6 variant 6.2.

    32Artillery: I'd class it as a Type 3, option 2, variety 5.
    (“We are both on the money, just using different references”).

    We could all introduce our own type systems and end up with a complete mess, but all be content in their ‘correctness’.
    I understand the will (and indeed, the need) to differentiate and identify the many variations, but to me, without a logical and chronologically-based plan (or better still, documentary evidence of makers and dates), they are just arbitrary lists created by collectors/authors. As here, wildly conflicting and confusing the issue..

    Anyway, gripe over! Just had to vent it.
    Back on topic.. my apologies again.
    That's a very good point. In Russia particularly it seems to be surprisingly common to keep introducing new classification systems, which unfortunately are never compatible with the existing ones. Ideally, if somebody refers to a certain type and variation, they should always add the classification system they used.

    It would be even better if all collectors could agree on one 'definite' classification system for Soviet awards, but that doesn't seem to be feasible. Some people think classification systems should be primarily based on different makers, others consider major visual differences to be the determining factor, and others still prefer the types to be divided in strict chronological order. There doesn't even seem to consensus about what the difference between a 'type' and a 'variation' actually is, and if differences between pieces - even minute differences - always necessarily mean you're dealing with different 'variations' (I personally don't think a worn die, a manufacturing defect, or miniscule differences resulting from the manual way in which parts of decorations were assembled justify branding it a new 'variation', but some collectors disagree).

    Anyway, rant over on my side as well ;-)

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