Queens South Africa medal and WW1 Trio...

[Leaftree]

Came across this medal bar this weekend.
This is the first QSA medal I've seen in person and I am not familiar with them.
These are the only pictures I have.

My overall opinion is that it's a put together bar:

-I cannot find the name in the list on this Angloboarwar site:
Anglo Boer War website - Name search

-I can find the name for the WW1 trio:
The National Archives | Search results:dickson 6866

By the looks of it a POW in ww1:
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot....pows-1914.html

- The medal obverse seems soft on details to me, and I'm not sure if it's even composed of the right metal. Overall it had a light feeling in weight. ( I know I'm missing the important reverse of the medal, I took the picture but it was blurred)

- The clasp joints look sloppy.

- Engraving of the name doesn't seem to match the examples of the time.
Anglo Boer War website - Queen's South Africa Medal naming styles

- Would Dickson still be a private when receiving the WW1 trio, some 14 years later?

-The bar isn't really joined together by a bar, but a fabric strip attaching them all together. This may be period, but I have never seen it in person.

Looking for some reassurance that I did the right thing by walking away from it.


Thank you,

[Richie B]

Firstly, I won't comment on the medals themselves, I will leave that for others.

I have found 2 entries on the Medal Rolls for the both 1 Gordons and 2 Gordons in the Second Boer War. His service number seems to have been entered incorrectly as 6886 and then amended to 6866.

6866 is the number on his medal card which is on Ancestry and is the one you found and linked to.

This shows his entitlement as

Victory Medal
British War Medal
1914 Star [France 13/08/1914]

Also mentions QSA Medal with Clasps South Africa 1901, South Africa 1902, Cape Colony, Orange Free State and Transvaal. This seems to match your photos.

Can't post and image at the moment due to technical reasons [incompetence !]

Can't find his service record however his Pension Record show 20 years 192 days service.

Name Mathew Dickson. Born Dundee. Married 5 children.

Reserves 1903-1914. Mobilized 05/08/1914.

[Ubique]

I'm wondering if the medals were given a clear lacquer coating at some stage, and its starting to chip away on the QSA? The naming on that medal looks possibly to be a later official replacement? It looks to have been stamped in a proper machine so its not a backyard job. Same rank over that time period is nothing unusual. Did you photograph the naming on the other medals?

Oz.

[Leaftree]

Thank you for taking the time to reply gentlemen.

So the story is seeming to add up then.
I'm thinking it's a replacement medal? I can't find any period examples that look like it. I believe he would have been awarded the Kings South Africa medal as well...lost both, only had one replaced?

As for the medal, I don't believe I've seen silver tarnish like this. If you look at the WW1 silver medal, it looks normal for it's age.
Maybe the lacquer as suggested causes this?

I did see the name on the other medals, nothing seemed off to me, therefore I focused on the QSA. Really disappointed at myself for the poor quality of the pictures.

[BobS]

Thank you for taking the time to reply gentlemen.

So the story is seeming to add up then.
I'm thinking it's a replacement medal? I can't find any period examples that look like it. I believe he would have been awarded the Kings South Africa medal as well...lost both, only had one replaced?

As for the medal, I don't believe I've seen silver tarnish like this. If you look at the WW1 silver medal, it looks normal for it's age.
Maybe the lacquer as suggested causes this?

I did see the name on the other medals, nothing seemed off to me, therefore I focused on the QSA. Really disappointed at myself for the poor quality of the pictures.

Regarding the KSA, note the clasps on the QSA for South Africa 1901 and South Africa 1902. No KSA issued if the QSA has one or both date clasps.
He was undoubtedly a "Old Contemptible ". Both regular battalions of the Gordons took very heavy casualties in 1914, the 1st battalion losing almost 500 prisoners during the Retreat from Mons.
This is a very nice long service group.

BobS

[Leaftree]

Was able to have a second viewing of the medals and take a few more pictures.
The lighting in the original set of pictures I took make it look soft, with the ones today I see a lot more detail.

Seller is asking $795Cdn so with the exchange rate $597US, is that a fair price? dealer sites are all over the map on these I find, low hundreds to a thousand.

Thank you,

[Ubique]

Some features I find concerning:
Tiny black flecks on the QSA and BWM. The BWM should polish quite easily.
The laurel wreath is by the F in AFRICA, by the R on my example. Were there multiple types?
The rim looks double-thick by Africa, and too thin at 7 O'clock.
The suspender attachment seems larger and coarser than my (swivelling) example.
Really weird patina on the back of the Star, maybe due to lacquering? But the stamping is good.
Just my opinion.

Oz.

[Ubique]

Just checked, yes, two types, one with wreath by F and one by R.

Oz.

[Adam Harland]

QSA looks like a late issue

[Jerry B]

Just checked, yes, two types, one with wreath by F and one by R.

Oz.

I think I posted this previously.

there are 3 types, with the date in place and hand pointing at the R
Date removed and hand as above.
No date and hand pointing at the F