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4.25mm Liliput

Article about: I was at a show last weekend and found this. I thought it was a joke at first, but it's real. From what I was able to find The Liliput was manufactured by Waffenfabrik August Menz in Suhl, G

  1. #1

    Default 4.25mm Liliput

    I was at a show last weekend and found this. I thought it was a joke at first, but it's real. From what I was able to find The Liliput was manufactured by Waffenfabrik August Menz in Suhl, Germany from approximately 1920 to 1927. And it's considered the second smallest center fire cartridge, Something called a Kolibri is the smallest.
    I can't find any info on the bullet weight, or ballistics though. There isn't any head stamp either, if there were, I don't have a magnifying glass that strong.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Best
    Paul

    47th MP Co/47th Inf Div 1983-1988
    583rd Ord Co 59th Ord Bde Muenster, W Germany
    1988-1990
    Looking for P37 ammo pouch with No4 bayo frog

  2. #2

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    Weight: 12 gr (1 g) FMJ
    Velocity: 810 ft/s (250 m/s)
    Energy: 17 ftlbf (23 J)

    Used to be 50-60 years ago, you could buy the Liliputs and still shoot them, but the ammunition was discontinued and the pistols rapidly moved into the "curio and relic" category.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  3. #3

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    Great, thank you William I did find an expired auction for the pistol, would be a fun novelty I think. The Kolibri only generated 3 lbs. ft. for energy. That they could make a semi-auto work with such low power.

    here's a comparison picture of the 2 types of kolibri and the lilput

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    Best
    Paul

    47th MP Co/47th Inf Div 1983-1988
    583rd Ord Co 59th Ord Bde Muenster, W Germany
    1988-1990
    Looking for P37 ammo pouch with No4 bayo frog

  4. #4
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Default

    Would be nice to see it next to a .22 or .17 for comparison.

    Nice find btw.

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  5. #5

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    Let's put it this way-the Kolibri 2.7mm round weighed about 3 grains. An average Red Ryder BB gun BB weighs a hair over 5 grains...When they Enlarged the 2.7mm Kolibri, they began producing a 3mm size shell-which weighed in at a hefty 5.25 grains!
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  6. #6
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Default

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Let's put it this way-the Kolibri 2.7mm round weighed about 3 grains. An average Red Ryder BB gun BB weighs a hair over 5 grains...When they Enlarged the 2.7mm Kolibri, they began producing a 3mm size shell-which weighed in at a hefty 5.25 grains!
    You'll shoot your eye out kid! LoL

    Thanks William.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #7

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    .22 short on the left .22 LR on the right

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Best
    Paul

    47th MP Co/47th Inf Div 1983-1988
    583rd Ord Co 59th Ord Bde Muenster, W Germany
    1988-1990
    Looking for P37 ammo pouch with No4 bayo frog

  8. #8
    MAP
    MAP is online now
    ?

    Default

    Now that really puts it into perspective for me. wouldn't want to drop one in the grass and have to find it!
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  9. #9

    Default

    That is some small cartridge !

    I read in a WWII biographic of a bunch of 101st troops
    entering a German weapons storage facility where
    one guy found and fired off the full mag of a
    scale miniature Thompson SMG. Wonder if
    it was this type of round.........?
    Regards,


    Steve.

  10. #10

    Default

    I've seen some of those scaled down guns that actually fired, hadn't heard about the thompson though, that would be a fun little gun to shoot. I was thinking about what a pain it would be to hand load his round, setting all of those little primers in the tray, the powder, just everything lol not fun

    These are the pictures I found from the auction, even the pistol is tiny, I doubt I could hold it in my hand it's that small.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Best
    Paul

    47th MP Co/47th Inf Div 1983-1988
    583rd Ord Co 59th Ord Bde Muenster, W Germany
    1988-1990
    Looking for P37 ammo pouch with No4 bayo frog

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